Potentially the longest thread in history...

[PP Mguire]

I just upgraded my audio system and like the old system....it does not have any fuses. I guess if you fry something, it'll get fried

The worst bit is how many people I found saying they bought half a dozen of them for their system and how *amazing* they are.

TBH this kind of shit isn't targeted for people like us, it's targeted toward the crowd that will spend 10 grand on a stereo MAC tube amp just to say they have the best but can't tell the difference between that and the 300 dollar Sony at Best Buy.

 

[Joe C]

Audio is like any other current as far as I can tell, A flow of electrons across a wire. I have seen amps and even some speakers that do use fuses and they look just like ordinary automotive types of fuses. I think that using some kinda "magic" fuse for a higher quality of audio is b.s. While I think using a quality wire which is solid copper is best for a speaker, ordinary lamp cord that is solid copper wire is no different than that fancy speaker wire that I have seen selling for a $100. Although you might get pretty colors and a 6 month warranty with the $100. wire

 

[PP Mguire]

There's science behind it, just like DACs, OP amps, high quality capacitors, tube vs solid state, ect, the issue is how placebo is it to the untrained ear. Then, how placebo is it to the trained ear. My guess it's one in the same like my previous response. The odds of adding it all up for an even better "experience" is slim. I've heard 10k B&W setups and I've got my old Yamaha mid range pre-HDMI receiver with mismatched speakers and I'm good. The difference between the NHT bookshelves to towers is big, and the difference between my Polk towers in the living room vs my Klipsch on my PC is big. The difference between my PC Klipsch and the B&W not 10k big. The art of diminishing returns is big in the audio world.

 

[Joe C]

I know what your saying about DAC's, Amps and Capacitors but one would think a fuse should pass the current through at a rated amount of amps before it'll blow, That is why I used the speaker wire analogy, because the wire doesn't or shouldn't if it sized properly, change what is already coming from the amp. True that bad wire can affect a speaker and maybe a badly made fuse could too, but I do not believe that OEM's undersize their fuses from the factory. "Joe C thinks he must get these magic Orange fuses!"...lol

 

[Joe C]

I could see how a fuse could make a difference in an audio sound after some thought.....
As you crank up the volume, that increases the amps within the system going to the speaker. A fuse would increase it resistance as it gets nearer the threshold of the max capacity of amps it can handle before it blows? This resistance would affect the sound quality, and in a home audio setting I would think that most people would hear this distortion before it blows?

A second pondering thought....
Lets say your listening to Pink Floyd's "Time" song, it starts out with a very hi pitched clock and bell sounds and then kicks in with a very low bass...which could blow a woofer if it is too loud. Could a fuse catch that before it fried the woofers coil, or rip out a speakers spider?

Edit:
One thing I do know.... That I don't know jack about this because the more I think about this the more it gets complicated. The Mrs C is not here, because about now she would say "time to shut up Joe...."

 

[PP Mguire]

Depends on where this fuse is meant to go, as I honestly didn't read that much into it. It's all about signal chain with audio so in theory (like I said there IS ScIeNcE behind it) a higher quality fuse could do a few things.
1, like you said higher tolerance and higher resistance.
2, higher quality material for less ripple
3, cap before distortion
4, provide more solid/stable current for solid state, tubes, whatever

Everything affects sound in the signal chain. From the input, to materials, to transformer, voltage input to amp, voltage output pre and post, point to point wire vs SMT, tube vs solid state, pot quality, overriding spec voltages and currents, impedance of speakers, load balancing, internal clipping, everything. When you get so far into it to provide "the best of the best" down to component quality and selection it's really a matter of diminishing returns. To the untrained ear it's the difference of that Amazon Basics HDMI cable vs that Monster one with gold plating. Even to a trained ear it could be the same. I know in the car audio world fuses matter. If you buy a Walmart packed fuse rated for 30A the odds of it blowing before it reaches that level is high. This could be that kinda scenario idk.

 

[Joe C]

Depends on where this fuse is meant to go, as I honestly didn't read that much into it. It's all about signal chain with audio so in theory (like I said there IS ScIeNcE behind it) a higher quality fuse could do a few things.
1, like you said higher tolerance and higher resistance.
2, higher quality material for less ripple
3, cap before distortion
4, provide more solid/stable current for solid state, tubes, whatever

Everything affects sound in the signal chain. From the input, to materials, to transformer, voltage input to amp, voltage output pre and post, point to point wire vs SMT, tube vs solid state, pot quality, overriding spec voltages and currents, impedance of speakers, load balancing, internal clipping, everything. When you get so far into it to provide "the best of the best" down to component quality and selection it's really a matter of diminishing returns. To the untrained ear it's the difference of that Amazon Basics HDMI cable vs that Monster one with gold plating. Even to a trained ear it could be the same. I know in the car audio world fuses matter. If you buy a Walmart packed fuse rated for 30A the odds of it blowing before it reaches that level is high. This could be that kinda scenario idk.

yup... I'm 63 yrs old now and I know that I am not able to hear nearly as well as when I was 20. I'll just enjoy what I got and let those "audiophiles" content to what they think. I'm sure it was that Pink Floyd concert at the Olympia (Detroit) in '74 that did not help my hearing issues today.

 

[PP Mguire]

I did live shows for 8 years without ear protection and many many concerts as a young child without ear protection, including drag strip trips as a kid without ear protection. I'm very thankful I still have excellent hearing and don't take it lightly.

 

[kmanmx]

The problem with the audiophile industry is you can *measure* a lot of things and prove they are better with a 10 grand oscilloscope. But that is so far beyond the human level of hearing it's unreal. Time and time again scientists have proven it with AB and ABX tests, people just cannot tell the difference, even trained ears.

The most pointless part of any audio system when it comes to spending money is the DAC. 99.9% of music is recorded at 44.1khz because that is all you need to convert a 22khz (the very upper limit of the best human hearing) analogue wave to digital.

"The Nyquist Theorem states that in order to adequately reproduce a signal it should be periodically sampled at a rate that is 2X the highest frequency you wish to record."

There are DACs now that are 768Khz and 32bit. Yes okay there is a very small amount of 192khz 24bit music, but it is few and far between. And still, a 768khz 32bit DAC gives you no advantage over a 192khz 24bit DAC for playing music. It's just bullshit.

The funny thing is someone took a $50k piece of scientific audio measuring equipment, and they showed a $9 Apple Lightning to 3.5mm cable produced a almost perfectly flat and perfectly balanced output from to 10hz to 21khz.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-quality.htm

And yet people will still go and buy $2000 DACs and claim they sound better. The only exception is when you start getting tubes. They do sound different - because they have way higher distortion, and apparently it sounds good to some people...

Yes you need a basic level of quality. But the DAC in any smartphone is good enough for even the highest end system, and if you have hard to drive headphones then you need to pay a few hundred bucks for something that can output a good couple of watts. But that's about it.

 

[PP Mguire]

The problem with the audiophile industry is you can *measure* a lot of things and prove they are better with a 10 grand oscilloscope. But that is so far beyond the human level of hearing it's unreal. Time and time again scientists have proven it with AB and ABX tests, people just cannot tell the difference, even trained ears.

The most pointless part of any audio system when it comes to spending money is the DAC. 99.9% of music is recorded at 44.1khz because that is all you need to convert a 22khz (the very upper limit of the best human hearing) analogue wave to digital.

"The Nyquist Theorem states that in order to adequately reproduce a signal it should be periodically sampled at a rate that is 2X the highest frequency you wish to record."

There are DACs now that are 768Khz and 32bit. Yes okay there is a very small amount of 192khz 24bit music, but it is few and far between. And still, a 768khz 32bit DAC gives you no advantage over a 192khz 24bit DAC for playing music. It's just bullshit.

The funny thing is someone took a $50k piece of scientific audio measuring equipment, and they showed a $9 Apple Lightning to 3.5mm cable produced a almost perfectly flat and perfectly balanced output from to 10hz to 21khz.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-quality.htm

And yet people will still go and buy $2000 DACs and claim they sound better. The only exception is when you start getting tubes. They do sound different - because they have way higher distortion, and apparently it sounds good to some people...

Yes you need a basic level of quality. But the DAC in any smartphone is good enough for even the highest end system, and if you have hard to drive headphones then you need to pay a few hundred bucks for something that can output a good couple of watts. But that's about it.

I actually have quite a bit of 24bit 96khz FLAC, but I've never seen 192khz. Funny thing is, the sources for these are probably still 16/44 lol

But yea, basically what I've been saying.

And yet people will still go and buy $2000 DACs and claim they sound better. The only exception is when you start getting tubes. They do sound different - because they have way higher distortion, and apparently it sounds good to some people...

Tubes are a tonal quality difference, and each kind of tube produces a different tone. For instance in my guitar amp a set of Groove Tubes will produce a much warmer tonal quality with a high frequency cut than say a set of Sovteks that have a more naturally scooped midrange and crisper highs. Biasing will produce a different overdriven tone but in the context of the conversation distortion and overdriven tonal qualities aren't really a thing when you're going for flat natural sound. I wouldn't want my tube headphone amp to distort at higher volumes. In fact I wouldn't want any kind of clipping for home theater or listening.

Edit: Playing some of my Steve Vai high quality stuff, my sound card is definitely fucked. Sigh