Potentially the longest thread in history...

[krazyq]

Personally, I don't think what he has done is great. But at the same time, I havn't seen anyone present a better solution. The majority of terrorists are Muslims, and so it is hard to argue against the idea that mass muslim immigration ban is probably the most effective method. That's just how it is. If someone comes up with a better, less extreme method of securing borders.. fine, but I don't see one. You only need to look at the EUs open borders and how easily terrorist attacks in France and Germany have been carried out, and then how easy it is for said terrorists to flee...

I feel sorry for the 98% of immigrants trying to get to the US for legit, good reasons. But Trump promised to put Americans first. That's what people voted for. So that's what he's doing. There are plenty of other countries for said people to travel too.

Is there a reason why he only picked those specific countries? A lot extremists are usually from Saudi/ Pakistan.
Right now I know Iraq and Syria are a mess with the crazy people living there trying to take over but I don't get why he left those mentioned countries out where the 9/11 attack happened.
Also keep in mind that the attacks that happened in UK recently, I think they were all citizens of those countries, correct me if I'm wrong.

Depends on certain things, but yes. US has more of a problem with domestic non-muslim terrorists than we do.

You see quite a lot of figures trying to prove that Muslims are not the problem, but they take into account terror attacks from pre 2000 where Islam extremism wasn't the issue it is today.

It's hard to talk about this stuff without just sounding anti-islam. But it's nothing to do with it. If all terrorists were white atheists from Germany, i'd want to block immigration from Germany too.

I won't lie, by someone saying that most terrorists are Muslims, it does hurt seeing statements like that.
I try seeing things from the other side and it can certainly seem that way so I won't blame anything for thinking that but then I wonder if there's media to blame for that, the way the portray or show things and how they hide other things that would maybe balance things out showing that they are evil people out there regardless or religion race, and religious unfortunately gets the blame for bad people.
I've looked into statistics and articles but nowadays it's hard believing anything.
Reason I worry about this new ban is how easy it will be for him to start adding countries as he pleases.
I know people that got stuck in the airport who were Citizens and Green card holders, so I'm not sure why they were held at airports.
If you go into history like long long time ago, Muslims dealt with the same extremists who believed their way was right and if no one else followed, you pretty much were dead, a lot of these extremists came from Saudi, Wahabis, not sure if you've heard that term.
These people would take me out if I ever came across them.
Idk what to really say tbh, can we really call those people who are crazy Muslims? we don't believe they are because they go against so many things that make you one.

 

[PP Mguire]

Is there a reason why he only picked those specific countries? A lot extremists are usually from Saudi/ Pakistan.
Right now I know Iraq and Syria are a mess with the crazy people living there trying to take over but I don't get why he left those mentioned countries out where the 9/11 attack happened.
Also keep in mind that the attacks that happened in UK recently, I think they were all citizens of those countries, correct me if I'm wrong.


I won't lie, by someone saying that most terrorists are Muslims, it does hurt seeing statements like that.
I try seeing things from the other side and it can certainly seem that way so I won't blame anything for thinking that but then I wonder if there's media to blame for that, the way the portray or show things and how they hide other things that would maybe balance things out showing that they are evil people out there regardless or religion race, and religious unfortunately gets the blame for bad people.
I've looked into statistics and articles but nowadays it's hard believing anything.
Reason I worry about this new ban is how easy it will be for him to start adding countries as he pleases.
I know people that got stuck in the airport who were Citizens and Green card holders, so I'm not sure why they were held at airports.
If you go into history like long long time ago, Muslims dealt with the same extremists who believed their way was right and if no one else followed, you pretty much were dead, a lot of these extremists came from Saudi, Wahabis, not sure if you've heard that term.
These people would take me out if I ever came across them.
Idk what to really say tbh, can we really call those people who are crazy Muslims? we don't believe they are because they go against so many things that make you one.

I don't. The people crying wolf were the ones who gave Clinton a standing ovation in 95 for increased immigration laws and tightening our borders and stood behind Obama putting that 6 month ban up. Obama was also the one that suggested the countries before leaving the office. At this point they're only crying because it's Trump and only because it's Trump. It has nothing to do with his actions. The only people who have any fear for actually accepting who's in office are those in colleges that are heavily left.

Already mentioned that.

 

[S0ULphIRE]

I don't. The people crying wolf were the ones who gave Clinton a standing ovation in 95 for increased immigration laws and tightening our borders and stood behind Obama putting that 6 month ban up. Obama was also the one that suggested the countries before leaving the office. At this point they're only crying because it's Trump and only because it's Trump. It has nothing to do with his actions. The only people who have any fear for actually accepting who's in office are those in colleges that are heavily left.

Decided to fact check you on that one. Looks like Obama didn't "suggest a list of countries" to ban at all. He signed the "Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act", which doesn't ban anyone from those countries entering the country. It just doesn't allow them to enter without a visa. Certain countries are considered secure/stable enough to visit for 90 days without even having to obtain a visa, these countries didn't make the cut.
More importantly, he didn't choose the countries on the list because "they're muslim countries". Indonesia is heavily muslim, but citizens there are still free to enter the country for 90 days.

 

[danhodge]

Depends on certain things, but yes. US has more of a problem with domestic non-muslim terrorists than we do.

You see quite a lot of figures trying to prove that Muslims are not the problem, but they take into account terror attacks from pre 2000 where Islam extremism wasn't the issue it is today.

The problem comes when trying to define terrorism. While some consider terrorists as just those with political objectives, there is a lot of debate as to whether it should include other motivations (race, ideology, etc).
So we always consider Al-Qaeda and the IRA as terrorists, but the KKK don't tend to get that description.

Also, correlating ISIS and Islam may sound logical, but I'd argue that it's actually quite an odd thing to do. Their using Islam for justification for killing thousands of people is like me justifying murder because I'm a programmer - there is no actual basis behind it, and banning programmers as a result would be a ridiculous effort.
Islam may have a violent history, but it is a peaceful religion that in its modern form teaches the same morals that christianity does. After all, Christianity, Judaism and Islam have some similar routes.

 

[kmanmx]

The problem comes when trying to define terrorism. While some consider terrorists as just those with political objectives, there is a lot of debate as to whether it should include other motivations (race, ideology, etc).
So we always consider Al-Qaeda and the IRA as terrorists, but the KKK don't tend to get that description.

Also, correlating ISIS and Islam may sound logical, but I'd argue that it's actually quite an odd thing to do. Their using Islam for justification for killing thousands of people is like me justifying murder because I'm a programmer - there is no actual basis behind it, and banning programmers as a result would be a ridiculous effort.
Islam may have a violent history, but it is a peaceful religion that in its modern form teaches the same morals that christianity does. After all, Christianity, Judaism and Islam have some similar routes.

Yeah, it really really sucks for most normal practicing Muslims. There are a few at my work, and they're some of the nicest people at the company. It's the 0.1% that turn it into extremism that ruin it for everyone.


Anyone got any good nerve/anxiety reducing techniques without taking benzodiazepines like valium?. I have my first few lessons on a full powered motorcycle and a my mod1 bike exam on Thursday 9th. I am a bag of nerves and I wake up every day feeling so stressed and nervous about it. It's just a combination of concern over handling a powerful bike, and the usual exam nerves. It doesn't even make any sense, I don't have a proper bike yet anyway so it makes no difference if I pass or fail first time, and I still have my car. It really doesn't affect me at all whether I pass first, second or third time... but whatever, because my brain is in full power stress mode about it.

edit:

Found an app called 'Calm', did the first exercise with some headphones in while locked in our IT store room so I was undisturbed. Ahhhhh that's better, worked really well, surprised me as I am totally not a meditation kind of person. Well, I am now, that **** was epic. I feel so relaxed

 

[S0ULphIRE]

Yeah apparently the answer is meditation never would've guessed. I found this website the other day, only done a few 4min ones so far but it's growing on me lol QuietKit.com

 

[PP Mguire]

Decided to fact check you on that one. Looks like Obama didn't "suggest a list of countries" to ban at all. He signed the "Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act", which doesn't ban anyone from those countries entering the country. It just doesn't allow them to enter without a visa. Certain countries are considered secure/stable enough to visit for 90 days without even having to obtain a visa, these countries didn't make the cut.
More importantly, he didn't choose the countries on the list because "they're muslim countries". Indonesia is heavily muslim, but citizens there are still free to enter the country for 90 days.

Decided to fact check you on that one. Looks like Obama didn't "suggest a list of countries" to ban at all. He signed the "Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act", which doesn't ban anyone from those countries entering the country.

The controversy is over refugees and immigrants from places like Iraq and Syria which you can't be present any time after March 2011. Also

or any other provision of law, as a country, the government of which has repeatedly provided support of acts of international terrorism; or

“(III) in any other country or area of concern designated by the Secretary of Homeland Security under subparagraph (D); and

Which is pretty much all countries in question. Also

In February 2016, the Obama administration added Libya, Somali and Yemen to the list of countries one could not have visited — but allowed dual citizens of those countries who had not traveled there access to the Visa Waiver Program. Dual citizens of Syria, Sudan, Iraq and Iran are still ineligible, however.

The legislation restricted access to the Visa Waiver Program, which allows citizens from 38 countries who are visiting the United States for less than 90 days to enter without a visa.

The 38 countries in question being what I was talking about. Gonna fact check, do it right Now if they didn't have a visa or a passport they couldn't come in, and specific countries were already banned if you were present there after March 2011. All Trump did was do what needed to be done that Obama didn't want to do.

More importantly, he didn't choose the countries on the list because "they're muslim countries".

Nobody said he did, or more specifically I didn't. Only person who mentioned Muslim people was Kman.

Edit: In an attempt to block political and sports posts from my feed I installed an extension, then went a little crazy and now my Facebook screen looks like an excerpt out of Myspace lol.

 

[kmanmx]

I thought he said he's "blocking 7 predominantly Muslim countries" not word for word but something like that. Pretty sure I saw that somewhere.

 

[PP Mguire]

I thought he said he's "blocking 7 predominantly Muslim countries" not word for word but something like that. Pretty sure I saw that somewhere.

Haven't looked it up. Only stuff I looked up as of yesterday was the country and ban thing and Obama. As of now, I have blocked all political nonsense on my Facebook and will be ignoring all political talk. I'm just done with it. As an American it is ridiculously annoying that I can't go a full day without somebody ruining it with political topics even at work. Trump is president, he's going to do **** that pisses us all off like all the others, get over it. The only thing I care about is repealing the Obamacare ****.

 

[krazyq]

^ people aren't going to just sit down. People will fight for what they believe is right, not sure what's the right way to fight, people seem to be against protesting, but who know what is the right and wrong way.
I've lived in a country where you can't really speak against the government and if you do you get locked up or deported.
And it really sucks how much people hate our new healthcare system, I know it isn't perfect but I know personally how much it's helped people in my family or others within my state in general, I do know that it's really different depending on where you live.
Right now my sister is working in the capital fighting to keep it or something but whatever happens I hope it benefits the majority.

And yeah I try forgetting about fb sometimes because I see crazy stuff on both sides, Pokemon Go was a good distraction when it came out.
Maybe we should all get away from this topic now, and just go back to talking about games, tech and other good stuff, this political stuff can be poison. Me and one of my very close friend/cousin have completely opposite opinions and things almost got bad once and we had to stop and now we don't bring any of that stuff up, just stick to Vikings, Timberwolves and gaming talk.