Potentially the longest thread in history...

[PP Mguire]

Meh, it's not dead, VR revenues are still increasing year on year, Steam VR ownership and use is also growing. And I like it, I just wish the hardware atleast approached the visual quality of my monitor. https://www.roadtovr.com/monthly-connected-vr-headsets-steam-survey-january-2022/

Nah it's always been practically dead. Nobody talks about it unless Meta does something then everybody is just talking shit rather than praising any efforts. Most articles or threads I see on VR is 90% people shitting on it and the other 10% commenting on how something is not right with the new headset. It's always been the reality of it because the cost to get into it and have an enjoyable experience is too expensive and lackluster. People want to pay 300 bucks for a device that they can get into and play Cyberpunk from a VR standpoint but when they do get in there it looks like Roblox because the fidelity has to be decreased massively to hold the framerates needed to not barf everywhere. PSVR was a massive fail in terms of capability and sales at only 5 million units in 4 years. I know 3 people who thought it was the shit for like 2 weeks then it collected dust and they realized that money could have went to a PS5 or PC. Especially when I let them play on the Vive Pro. Then they see that even on my PC things didn't look that great still and lost all interest in VR entirely.
Tons of people in my HOA group (which is 9000 strong) reselling Quest 2 only a month or so after Christmas. TBH I kinda regret not grabbing the one that was only 100 but I kinda cringe at how nasty one could be second hand. I'd say the people I see the most consistently using VR is content creators because it's easy content due to the nature of it.

But yeah enjoying MW2 as well, though like 30% of the Ground War games I play in, the server becomes real laggy halfway through and then it complains if I try and leave and says i'll get some negative score or attribute or something for abandoning the match. I really enjoy the explosions from air to air weapons and the thermobaric airstrikes, they look great, and I just learnt I can control the dB levels of my rear speakers for my soundbar so I get better rear audio now when jets fly overhead.

You too? I played all day yesterday and had some issues. First problem was trying to figure out the dumb new chat system with a PS player. Second problem was being in the middle of a match and it dumping us for "an update" then getting tossed in server queue. Third problem was that random server lag, but tbh there was a name with Asian characters so I figured either a hacker or bad ping. Fourth problem was the fact this person could get into our lobby obviously using a VPN (which probably en masse caused the server issues). Fifth problem was when my wife was able to get on we were having connectivity issues due to 2 devices on the same network which has plagued CoD for over a decade now. It kept crashing the PS user and my game when trying to modify weapons or queueing up.

Yup, annoying though. They've apparently been working on better VR performance and Vulkan support for a year or two now, but still no sign of it.

The unfortunate thing is it won't fix anything. The AI in these games need to be done on an AI coprocessor like tensor cores, not a general purpose CPU. It's too slow. This has been a problem for over 2 decades now.

I dont want them to fail because as much as I hate Zuck and most of what they do, theyre the biggest R&D investor in VR and I very much want the VR dream headset within the next decade, no matter who makes it..

It'll come regardless simply due to the fact that things gradually get cheaper to produce like OLED panels, high refresh high res margins higher on smaller cuts, and things easier to render as GPUs get more powerful. Wireless technology has been getting a ton better too which will help with the wireless portion of these headsets. 120Gb/s type C rates as well for wired and beyond.

 

[kmanmx]

Nah it's always been practically dead. Nobody talks about it unless Meta does something then everybody is just talking shit rather than praising any efforts. Most articles or threads I see on VR is 90% people shitting on it and the other 10% commenting on how something is not right with the new headset. It's always been the reality of it because the cost to get into it and have an enjoyable experience is too expensive and lackluster. People want to pay 300 bucks for a device that they can get into and play Cyberpunk from a VR standpoint but when they do get in there it looks like Roblox because the fidelity has to be decreased massively to hold the framerates needed to not barf everywhere. PSVR was a massive fail in terms of capability and sales at only 5 million units in 4 years. I know 3 people who thought it was the shit for like 2 weeks then it collected dust and they realized that money could have went to a PS5 or PC. Especially when I let them play on the Vive Pro. Then they see that even on my PC things didn't look that great still and lost all interest in VR entirely.
Tons of people in my HOA group (which is 9000 strong) reselling Quest 2 only a month or so after Christmas. TBH I kinda regret not grabbing the one that was only 100 but I kinda cringe at how nasty one could be second hand. I'd say the people I see the most consistently using VR is content creators because it's easy content due to the nature of it.

An interesting stat for you, the amount of people connecting a VR headset each month and using a 4K display on Steam, are about the same, circa 2% of users. So if we're going by Steam usership stats, 4K PC gaming is as dead as PC VR gaming . I guess we have different interpretations of what dead means.

It'll come regardless simply due to the fact that things gradually get cheaper to produce like OLED panels, high refresh high res margins higher on smaller cuts, and things easier to render as GPUs get more powerful. Wireless technology has been getting a ton better too which will help with the wireless portion of these headsets. 120Gb/s type C rates as well for wired and beyond.

Yeah the easy stuff like higher res screens will happen regardless of Meta. But some things are really hard engineering challenges and you need companies like Meta, Google, Apple etc. Meta are the only company that have produced a headset with good inside out tracking. Even the Microsoft developed inside out tracking is just not on the same level, and consumer electronics companies like Lenovo or HP are not going to achieve it. Seems like Sony have figured it out for PSVR2, but I still won't be surprised if it's a step behind the tracking of Quest.

 

[PP Mguire]

An interesting stat for you, the amount of people connecting a VR headset each month and using a 4K display on Steam, are about the same, circa 2% of users. So if we're going by Steam usership stats, 4K PC gaming is as dead as PC VR gaming . I guess we have different interpretations of what dead means.

Well yes, it is, and has been since mainstream 4k displays released in 2015. 4k will be dead just as long because it isn't feasible in the mainstream area yet. In fact, 1440p is finally taking a stronger foothold 7 years after 4k panels started to make sense and we're just NOW finally getting to what I'd say "playable" framerates with 1600 dollar cards.

Yeah the easy stuff like higher res screens will happen regardless of Meta. But some things are really hard engineering challenges and you need companies like Meta, Google, Apple etc. Meta are the only company that have produced a headset with good inside out tracking. Even the Microsoft developed inside out tracking is just not on the same level, and consumer electronics companies like Lenovo or HP are not going to achieve it. Seems like Sony have figured it out for PSVR2, but I still won't be surprised if it's a step behind the tracking of Quest.

I honestly much prefer the tracking for the Index honestly. I would have to see what's what with their new Quest but since I'm not in the iLab anymore that'll probably never happen.

Edit: OT, have you ever used the enhance feature in Photoshop for Apple DNG photos? Does it use only one core for you?

 

[kmanmx]

Well yes, it is, and has been since mainstream 4k displays released in 2015. 4k will be dead just as long because it isn't feasible in the mainstream area yet. In fact, 1440p is finally taking a stronger foothold 7 years after 4k panels started to make sense and we're just NOW finally getting to what I'd say "playable" framerates with 1600 dollar cards.

I honestly much prefer the tracking for the Index honestly. I would have to see what's what with their new Quest but since I'm not in the iLab anymore that'll probably never happen.

Edit: OT, have you ever used the enhance feature in Photoshop for Apple DNG photos? Does it use only one core for you?

I guess we can just use dead on your end and niche on my end between the two of us and mean the same thing . Never used that feature of Photoshop, but I found Photoshop and Lightroom performance quite bad in general so it wouldn't surprise me at all.

Played more MW2 last damn. It really needs a patch, I had a tank drive by and the cloud dust just turned into a black sphere with a white dot center covering my entire screen. Then I notced all the shadows off of a concrete tube were jagged squares. Then I noticed LOD issues when you zoom in with a scope, buildings in the distance look awful ?. Then on another building the chimney pipes or whatever they were are just floating a meter above the building completely unconnected. Fortunately, the game is still real fun to play, and I don't encounter many gameplay issues. I'm enjoying ground war with the exception that 75% of players are snipers and being one hit killed time after time is a bit annoying. Oh, and I keep getting spawn killed in a split second, so I guess that's my major gameplay complaint.

In other news, I have Schrödinger's 4090. I want to check if the power connector has melted, but what if checking it causes it to be reconnected improperly and damages it ? the act of checking it could be what melts it...

 

[PP Mguire]

I guess we can just use dead on your end and niche on my end between the two of us and mean the same thing

Nah, not really. VR is niche yes, but the difference between the two is 4k is a natural progression to what is already established. Everybody uses a monitor and as 4k displays get cheaper and the hardware to push that gets more in the midrange it'll naturally become mainstream. For now after almost 10 years we are finally getting to the 1440p era where 1080p users are starting to move to 1440p. Albeit, that was held back by 2 years. 4k is gonna take a while yet, and 8k will take even longer if it ever does because there's not much a reason to go beyond 4k. That being said, I've always said VR is dead from the basic things I've said before. Coupled onto what I just said, people need monitors, people don't need VR. They go with what they know, and I said the same thing about the Hololens and AR in general too. It's being used for dumb things like my Ubiquiti switches and phone filters, not this Google Glass filled Cyberpunk enviro like they envisioned. At the end of the day people are cheap af, and unlike us who don't see a problem spending 1600 on a 4090, they don't want to spend more than a couple hundred on a product they'll only use for a week. With that mindset always being an issue, it won't really take off.

Played more MW2 last damn. It really needs a patch, I had a tank drive by and the cloud dust just turned into a black sphere with a white dot center covering my entire screen. Then I notced all the shadows off of a concrete tube were jagged squares. Then I noticed LOD issues when you zoom in with a scope, buildings in the distance look awful ?. Then on another building the chimney pipes or whatever they were are just floating a meter above the building completely unconnected. Fortunately, the game is still real fun to play, and I don't encounter many gameplay issues. I'm enjoying ground war with the exception that 75% of players are snipers and being one hit killed time after time is a bit annoying. Oh, and I keep getting spawn killed in a split second, so I guess that's my major gameplay complaint.

I've had people team kill me with vehicles, the latest Nvidia driver causes flashing on my screen sporadically, the spawn system is broke in all modes (spawning near somebody camping and insta kill), various graphical glitches like particles being stuck, shadows sometimes non-existent, laying in grass with it covering my face but kill cam shows my face clear, and doors being open when they're actually closed, and last night we ran into a HUGE server problem. We were in the middle of a TDM match when suddenly everybody was getting latency spikes all the way to 999ms. Literally everybody. We're talking massive desync, me flying into the air then screen moving to under the map flying in the air again. Wife stuck frozen with firing weapon sounds. Others running into walls, and then the entire enemy team got kicked with our team being able to run around for a solid minute and a half before being booted to the main menu. It was honestly the wildest online FPS experience I've ever had. Like, Halo 2 on Xbox Live 1.0 was smoother than that. I've also noticed they aren't doing a damn thing about these Asians using VPN to lobby in the US region which is probably causing a lot of server sync issues alone. Like I'm sorry, you make it very obvious if your name is Japanese characters and you're speaking Japanese in a lobby full of grown ass dudes saying the N word. My wife is level 11 and has customized her character and weapons but she never updates in the lobby and shows level 1 still. The in game voice chat is seriously broken, constantly saying voice service not available. Cross play with PS in PC lobby causes all of us to hard crash after a match or two. Despite all that I'm still having a blast and maxed out the P90 level on day 1.

Also, ALL modes have the sniper issue. I honestly don't mind the one hit kill because it should be that way, but they should punish players who sit at the same spot on the map the entire round of TDM.

#2 also, what's the deal with including battle pass in the Vault edition but it's not available? Or not having literally any hardcore mode on day 1?

 

[kmanmx]

Nah, not really. VR is niche yes, but the difference between the two is 4k is a natural progression to what is already established. Everybody uses a monitor and as 4k displays get cheaper and the hardware to push that gets more in the midrange it'll naturally become mainstream. For now after almost 10 years we are finally getting to the 1440p era where 1080p users are starting to move to 1440p. Albeit, that was held back by 2 years. 4k is gonna take a while yet, and 8k will take even longer if it ever does because there's not much a reason to go beyond 4k. That being said, I've always said VR is dead from the basic things I've said before. Coupled onto what I just said, people need monitors, people don't need VR. They go with what they know, and I said the same thing about the Hololens and AR in general too. It's being used for dumb things like my Ubiquiti switches and phone filters, not this Google Glass filled Cyberpunk enviro like they envisioned. At the end of the day people are cheap af, and unlike us who don't see a problem spending 1600 on a 4090, they don't want to spend more than a couple hundred on a product they'll only use for a week. With that mindset always being an issue, it won't really take off.

I've had people team kill me with vehicles, the latest Nvidia driver causes flashing on my screen sporadically, the spawn system is broke in all modes (spawning near somebody camping and insta kill), various graphical glitches like particles being stuck, shadows sometimes non-existent, laying in grass with it covering my face but kill cam shows my face clear, and doors being open when they're actually closed, and last night we ran into a HUGE server problem. We were in the middle of a TDM match when suddenly everybody was getting latency spikes all the way to 999ms. Literally everybody. We're talking massive desync, me flying into the air then screen moving to under the map flying in the air again. Wife stuck frozen with firing weapon sounds. Others running into walls, and then the entire enemy team got kicked with our team being able to run around for a solid minute and a half before being booted to the main menu. It was honestly the wildest online FPS experience I've ever had. Like, Halo 2 on Xbox Live 1.0 was smoother than that. I've also noticed they aren't doing a damn thing about these Asians using VPN to lobby in the US region which is probably causing a lot of server sync issues alone. Like I'm sorry, you make it very obvious if your name is Japanese characters and you're speaking Japanese in a lobby full of grown ass dudes saying the N word. My wife is level 11 and has customized her character and weapons but she never updates in the lobby and shows level 1 still. The in game voice chat is seriously broken, constantly saying voice service not available. Cross play with PS in PC lobby causes all of us to hard crash after a match or two. Despite all that I'm still having a blast and maxed out the P90 level on day 1.

Also, ALL modes have the sniper issue. I honestly don't mind the one hit kill because it should be that way, but they should punish players who sit at the same spot on the map the entire round of TDM.

#2 also, what's the deal with including battle pass in the Vault edition but it's not available? Or not having literally any hardcore mode on day 1?

Yeah hoping for a patch sooner rather than later, the more I play the more I realise they have a lot of stuff to fix - but still I have fun with it. I too have the asian high ping player issue too, in fact one game I swear atleast half the players I killed had asian characters in their name. Though I have better luck if I keep cancelling matchmaking once it searches past 30ms ping. For the first time yesterday I played a couple rounds on the normal non-ground war maps, i'd unlocked a new bolt action marksman rifle so tried that, didn't expect to be competetive with all the people rocking assault rifles and SMGs. But holy shit, my first game I came out with 26:8 kdr, even at close range you can just one hit kill snap shot before they even get chance to react. Overall though i'm not great at this game. I'm generally pretty average and come out around mid table, but maybe 20% of games I come out at or near the top.

 

[PP Mguire]

Yeah hoping for a patch sooner rather than later, the more I play the more I realise they have a lot of stuff to fix - but still I have fun with it. I too have the asian high ping player issue too, in fact one game I swear atleast half the players I killed had asian characters in their name. Though I have better luck if I keep cancelling matchmaking once it searches past 30ms ping. For the first time yesterday I played a couple rounds on the normal non-ground war maps, i'd unlocked a new bolt action marksman rifle so tried that, didn't expect to be competetive with all the people rocking assault rifles and SMGs. But holy shit, my first game I came out with 26:8 kdr, even at close range you can just one hit kill snap shot before they even get chance to react. Overall though i'm not great at this game. I'm generally pretty average and come out around mid table, but maybe 20% of games I come out at or near the top.

I come out a lot of games near the top but still consider myself to be rather average, just with an advantage against console players. I've noticed if I do too good the SBMM will start pairing me with sweats to where I intentionally do bad to go back down for a more casual experience.

 

[kmanmx]

I come out a lot of games near the top but still consider myself to be rather average, just with an advantage against console players. I've noticed if I do too good the SBMM will start pairing me with sweats to where I intentionally do bad to go back down for a more casual experience.

Forgot the game even had SBMM. I'm rank 25 and it put me in a game with 90% rank 50's yesterday, and I came out in the bottom half of the table. Not sure if it just went wrong or something as usually i'm in more even matches.

In other news, i've booked off a weeks annual leave at work and my employer are asking me to provide a reason. I told them it was private and so I won't be providing a reason. They don't seem very happy about it and have requested a meeting later today to discuss it

 

[PP Mguire]

Forgot the game even had SBMM. I'm rank 25 and it put me in a game with 90% rank 50's yesterday, and I came out in the bottom half of the table. Not sure if it just went wrong or something as usually i'm in more even matches.

Nah, SBMM just paried you with sweats.

In other news, i've booked off a weeks annual leave at work and my employer are asking me to provide a reason. I told them it was private and so I won't be providing a reason. They don't seem very happy about it and have requested a meeting later today to discuss it

How very American of them.

 

[kmanmx]

Nah, SBMM just paried you with sweats.

How very American of them.

It's weird, in 10 years of work noone has ever asked me for a reason before. I'm not gonna provide it, even if they push hard.