Universal Basic Income

[1etherer]

There are no "basic human rights," at least as far as I see it. That sounds pretty harsh but it is reality. Income is not a right; it is something you earn. Health insurance is not a right; it is something you pay for with the earnings you make or provided by your employer as a benefit to you. Food is not a right; you grow it, buy it, or barter for it. Clean air/water is not a right; you get what you can where you can.

I realize that my mentality is not the majority but it should be.

I agree, it's just an illusion to think we have rights, rights do not exist.

Everyone can do what they want (freedom) but then others can stop you (freedom), this is society.

Life is a choice/ fight not a right

I'm sure I'll be able to keep my career before automation takes over everything!

 

[carnageX]

There are no "basic human rights," at least as far as I see it. That sounds pretty harsh but it is reality. Income is not a right; it is something you earn. Health insurance is not a right; it is something you pay for with the earnings you make or provided by your employer as a benefit to you.

Yes income is something you earn (we can argue the health insurance thing but I won't as it kind of detracts from the point) - but what happens when nearly everything is automated? Fast food, truck drivers, and grocery stores will be some of the first to get axed. Same with low-skill jobs such as picking fruit and such. Farming is already 90% automated (tractors drive themselves via GPS - the driver is only there to make sure it doesn't glitch out since it's relatively new tech still). IT will eventually be automated (a lot of it already is automatable, with little human intervention). Software development will also eventually be automated. Heck, even art is somewhat automated now in the sense of neural networks (Google's Deepdream for example), fractals, etc.

So the original question basically was: what happens when automation takes over a majority of jobs? The only thing that'll slow it down (not stop it) it is regulation & government, honestly - going through the hoops and red tape. How do people live day-to-day when there's so many people without jobs? You can say "well then they should learn a skill where there is a job" - which won't really work because the market will become saturated, and majority of people will still be out of a job.

Food is not a right; you grow it, buy it, or barter for it. Clean air/water is not a right; you get what you can where you can.

I realize that my mentality is not the majority but it should be.

I'd say the Declaration of Independance (for the US) suggests differently.

We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable; that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty, & the pursuit of happiness;

I'd say "food, water, and air" fall under the "preservation of life" bit.

 

[danhodge]

So Switzerland had a public vote on this and majorly turned it down a couple of days ago:
Switzerland's 'Money for Nothing' Proposal - The Atlantic

I'm not surprised really, for this to pass, there needs to be a lot of research into how it will perform. We know Finland is researching this, and I expect one of the Scandinavian countries to be the first to actually implement this (my vote is on Norway ).

 

[carnageX]

Norway is already planning on banning ICE vehicles after 2025:
HARDOCP - Norway Banning New Sales Of Gas-Powered Cars By 2025

 

[EddyP]

I can genuinely see automation creating a large swathes of stretched or unemployed people, so I think UBI is a great idea though the cultural shifts we need to get there are a long way off.

When I discuss it with people, everyone seems shocked at the idea of getting something for nothing without thinking about the extent to which money is a man-made product. A product that stands between people and things as basic as food and shelter.

 

[1etherer]

I can genuinely see automation creating a large swathes of stretched or unemployed people, so I think UBI is a great idea though the cultural shifts we need to get there are a long way off.

When I discuss it with people, everyone seems shocked at the idea of getting something for nothing without thinking about the extent to which money is a man-made product. A product that stands between people and things as basic as food and shelter.

I think that's what people think job seekers allowance is lol, them benefits people will never get a job but think that money is theirs and that their entitled to it......

Unless we all get UBI (even working people with a large salary) and my salary is boosted much more so people on UBI can't have the same life style then I'm against it.

 

[carnageX]

I think that's what people think job seekers allowance is lol, them benefits people will never get a job but think that money is theirs and that their entitled to it......

Unless we all get UBI (even working people with a large salary) and my salary is boosted much more so people on UBI can't have the same life style then I'm against it.

This is what I was thinking about - everybody entitled to UBI, and then people still with jobs would get compensated on top of that (but not to the extent that they're the "super rich" class). I mean...eventually even your job will be phased out - IT is pretty automatable. Even my job (software development) will eventually be automated.

 

[1etherer]

This is what I was thinking about - everybody entitled to UBI, and then people still with jobs would get compensated on top of that (but not to the extent that they're the "super rich" class). I mean...eventually even your job will be phased out - IT is pretty automatable. Even my job (software development) will eventually be automated.

Very true, we have got rid of 5 people in our IT service desk because we are rolling out serviceNow which automates most staff requests and IT issues, so management don't see the need for so many staff

 

[Trotter]

One question: How do you pay for it?

 

[S0ULphIRE]

The same way current social welfare is paid for, with the overarching idea that this will replace current social welfare schemes

My question: how do you support a population that has no access to income because the low-level jobs have all been automated? What would *you* specifically do if tomorrow your job became obsolete, along with all similarly tiered jobs?