Why aren't Developers interested in pre-formed startups? Need advice.

jleeinnyc

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Hey guys! I'm hoping ya'll might be able to shed some light on an issue I've been having:

I founded a site (mypotluckapp.com) last September, and as a total newbie to the tech startup world (I have a successful background in biz dev & marketing in the entertainment industry,) I first started by meeting with entrepreneurs, investors, developers, etc just asking for advice as to the best approach to getting my idea off the ground.

The number one piece of advice I received was basically that I should "test the market." Most people that I spoke with said that I shouldn't waste hundreds of hours building a product, or spend tons of money hiring somebody to build it, before getting out there to see if there was an actual market for it, if people wanted to use it/thought it was cool/signed up for it, etc etc.

I was told to figure out a business plan, revenue streams, a potential user-base, and that building the site first would be a complete waste of time/money because the idea would probably morph into something completely different through the above-mentioned research.

I've also read countless blog posts/advice columns by big-name investors throughout the tech world that complain that developers spend 1,000 hours building something and have no clue how to market it or how to make money with it, and investors are dumping tens of millions of dollars into dead-ends just simply hoping that Google or Facebook will come along and buy it out.

Anyway, I took that advice, and have spent the past 6 months developing a fully-fleshed business plan including revenue streams, target markets, 5-year growth projections, and competitor analysis. I then created a launch page via kickofflabs.com and started marketing the idea to the general public to gauge interest and to see if people would actually use or care about what I wanted to build. Come to find out, people LOVE it! Lots of great interactions through social media, and good buzz from media. I set a goal of 1,000 signups and I'm sitting at around 926 right now. (remember, this is all without ever writing the first line of code, so there isn't actually a product. These are people that are interested in the product and want it.)

So I've taken all of this information and pitched it to some investors, who seemed genuinely interested. The gist of what they told me was that they see some great potential, they really like me as a founder, and the team I've put together so far, and they really believe that this will be successful. They then asked to see a prototype so that they could make their final decision.

Here's the issue: Developers won't touch this with a 10-foot pole, it seems. My partner and I (he's design/UX, and I'm biz dev/marketing) have been completely brick-walled when trying to find a developer interested in signing on as Co-Founder/CTO. Every candidate I've interviewed has basically told me that they can "command six figures" and are unwilling to work for equity. I even had one guy tell me he'd sign on for a $20K bonus up-front and 30% of the company. WTF? Remember, these are people who actually responded to a job posting OUTLINING the fact that we're a startup pre-investment, and that I was offering equity. They still came to the interview and had the nerve....anyway, I digress.

I completely understand that developers can basically write their own checks these days because they're so in demand, but really? When I look at tech meetup groups, incubators, entrepreneur groups, and other tech startup environments, it seems that the memberships are 99% made up of young developers trying to get funding for their ideas or trying to find help building out a business plan for ideas they've already spent 1,000 hours building. The exact thing I was told NOT to do.

Doesn't that seem a bit backwards? How is it that the whole tech world talks about this issue, but I still find it impossible to get investment without a developer, and I can't get a developer without investment? Also, if I have investment, and can just offer a fat salary and benefits to hire somebody outright, why in the world would I give them a huge chunk of equity? Where's the motivation for me to do that, when they weren't a part of the team that made this a reality? (And the argument that "building it is making it a reality" doesn't fly, because there are 10,000 freelance developers I could hire to just build it. I need someone that can manage a department, ya' know?)

Anyway, I would absolutely love to hear all of your opinions on this topic, and maybe you can help me figure out a way to get a CTO on board? Or you can all just tell me I'm an idiot and should learn to code myself. :)
 
Hey guys! I'm hoping ya'll might be able to shed some light on an issue I've been having:

I founded a site (mypotluckapp.com) last September, and as a total newbie to the tech startup world (I have a successful background in biz dev & marketing in the entertainment industry,) I first started by meeting with entrepreneurs, investors, developers, etc just asking for advice as to the best approach to getting my idea off the ground.

The number one piece of advice I received was basically that I should "test the market." Most people that I spoke with said that I shouldn't waste hundreds of hours building a product, or spend tons of money hiring somebody to build it, before getting out there to see if there was an actual market for it, if people wanted to use it/thought it was cool/signed up for it, etc etc.
Hi jleeinnyc,

To be blunt, telling you to go test the market is a nice way of saying "get lost". I have a few successful ventures under my belt, and have been on both sides of the funding process, so I feel like that's what happened, just by reading your post.


I was told to figure out a business plan, revenue streams, a potential user-base, and that building the site first would be a complete waste of time/money because the idea would probably morph into something completely different through the above-mentioned research.
Yes. You should know how you are going to make money.


I've also read countless blog posts/advice columns by big-name investors throughout the tech world that complain that developers spend 1,000 hours building something and have no clue how to market it or how to make money with it, and investors are dumping tens of millions of dollars into dead-ends just simply hoping that Google or Facebook will come along and buy it out.
Yes. If you show up with a concept, no money, and no idea how to make money, then it will be hard to gain traction.


Anyway, I took that advice, and have spent the past 6 months developing a fully-fleshed business plan including revenue streams, target markets, 5-year growth projections, and competitor analysis. I then created a launch page via kickofflabs.com and started marketing the idea to the general public to gauge interest and to see if people would actually use or care about what I wanted to build. Come to find out, people LOVE it! Lots of great interactions through social media, and good buzz from media. I set a goal of 1,000 signups and I'm sitting at around 926 right now. (remember, this is all without ever writing the first line of code, so there isn't actually a product. These are people that are interested in the product and want it.)
Remember, there is a huge difference between people saying they love your idea and reaching into their pockets to pay you money. If they are paying you money, for a subscription or membership, or whatever, then you are on the right track.


So I've taken all of this information and pitched it to some investors, who seemed genuinely interested. The gist of what they told me was that they see some great potential, they really like me as a founder, and the team I've put together so far, and they really believe that this will be successful. They then asked to see a prototype so that they could make their final decision.
It's a start...

Here's the issue: Developers won't touch this with a 10-foot pole, it seems. My partner and I (he's design/UX, and I'm biz dev/marketing) have been completely brick-walled when trying to find a developer interested in signing on as Co-Founder/CTO. Every candidate I've interviewed has basically told me that they can "command six figures" and are unwilling to work for equity. I even had one guy tell me he'd sign on for a $20K bonus up-front and 30% of the company. WTF? Remember, these are people who actually responded to a job posting OUTLINING the fact that we're a startup pre-investment, and that I was offering equity. They still came to the interview and had the nerve....anyway, I digress.
It will be very difficult to find anyone halfway decent to code for equity. Think of it this way -- if you don't have enough money to develop your core product, how are you going to afford to market it and grow?


I completely understand that developers can basically write their own checks these days because they're so in demand, but really? When I look at tech meetup groups, incubators, entrepreneur groups, and other tech startup environments, it seems that the memberships are 99% made up of young developers trying to get funding for their ideas or trying to find help building out a business plan for ideas they've already spent 1,000 hours building. The exact thing I was told NOT to do.
The tricky thing is all the good coders are taken. You really need to be careful to not get desperate and get into bed with someone who really doesn't know how to design software. There are a lot of guys that get by just hacking away at some code to make it work, but that isn't what you want.


Doesn't that seem a bit backwards? How is it that the whole tech world talks about this issue, but I still find it impossible to get investment without a developer, and I can't get a developer without investment? Also, if I have investment, and can just offer a fat salary and benefits to hire somebody outright, why in the world would I give them a huge chunk of equity? Where's the motivation for me to do that, when they weren't a part of the team that made this a reality? (And the argument that "building it is making it a reality" doesn't fly, because there are 10,000 freelance developers I could hire to just build it. I need someone that can manage a department, ya' know?)
Why would you want to give equity to a developer? Just contract out your project.


Anyway, I would absolutely love to hear all of your opinions on this topic, and maybe you can help me figure out a way to get a CTO on board? Or you can all just tell me I'm an idiot and should learn to code myself. :)
No worries. You have to go through the process. Do you have any assets or any savings at all?
 
vintorg said it very well.

Good developers are very weary of startup projects without funding. Developers are a dime-a-dozen. Good developers however, are one in a million. If they already have steady work making nearly six figures they aren't going to drop everything for a good idea. Even a revolutionary idea.

You need to look at why you're not receiving funding just yet. Angels and VCs would be willing to provide funding if your idea and business plan were near foolproof.

I would be interested in at least hearing what your project is and what makes it great. You can shoot me a PM.
 
Same here jle. If you are looking for some brutal truth, PM me about your project and maybe I can give some advice on how I would try to approach it and package it for investors.
 
That is all really great info, thanks!
"To be blunt, telling you to go test the market is a nice way of saying "get lost". I have a few successful ventures under my belt, and have been on both sides of the funding process, so I feel like that's what happened, just by reading your post."
I totally get what you're saying, but given the context of my conversations I don't believe that is the case. These are people that I know personally and trust, as well as the fact that I was merely seeking advice, not further assistance in any way. I was "picking peoples brains", as it were.

In response to "Why would you want to give equity to a developer?" I will say that I'm not necessarily looking for just a developer, I'm looking for a CTO to help run the company from the development side. As that would be basically a co-founder, I believe that equity would only be fair (again, this is all based on pre-funding. If I can find a partner, I can easily get to the next step.)

As I've gotten to the point where it seems that all I need is a working prototype to be able to secure investment, I'm just going to pay out of pocket to have something built that works. If I can then secure investment, the team will be hired (etc etc) and we'll build the actual scalable product.

Thanks, again, for all the insight into why it'd be very difficult to get a developer to become a co-founder. It all makes sense, and is line with everything I've heard about the fact that there's really no incentive for them unless I already have funding.

Damn catch-22's LOL
 
A CTO doesn't necessarily write the code. There is a lot that goes into being a CTO, and you need someone who has a real understanding of all the aspects of your infrastructure. Giving someone the title of CTO to anyone who can bang out your product isn't the wisest thing to do; it needs to be the right person. Your CTO needs to be well rounded in the IT world. You can have a coder who can bang it out, but they may have no idea on managing people, about security, setting policy for the development team, etc.

A prototype isn't really the thing. It helps when doing the rounds, but having a working product that is bringing in some revenue is more valuable than having a prototype and shopping.

What type of website is it? The industry you are trying to enter is a factor as well.
 
A CTO doesn't necessarily write the code. There is a lot that goes into being a CTO, and you need someone who has a real understanding of all the aspects of your infrastructure. Giving someone the title of CTO to anyone who can bang out your product isn't the wisest thing to do; it needs to be the right person. Your CTO needs to be well rounded in the IT world. You can have a coder who can bang it out, but they may have no idea on managing people, about security, setting policy for the development team, etc.

A prototype isn't really the thing. It helps when doing the rounds, but having a working product that is bringing in some revenue is more valuable than having a prototype and shopping.

What type of website is it? The industry you are trying to enter is a factor as well.

Yes, this is exactly why I've been searching for 6 months with no luck. I haven't found anyone that has the qualifications and who is interested in coming on board at a pre-funding startup. And in terms of the prototype, I completely agree with you in regards to having an actual working product, as opposed to something that is clickable but not functional, and I would absolutely love to have the former. If I can find a CTO with the skills, I plan on actually building the product completely and not even worrying about going after funding just yet.

At it's simplest, Potluck (mypotluckapp.com), is a web-based tool for organizing dinner parties/potlucks/small gatherings. You create the event, invite your guests, and we have a "Virtual Grocery Store" through which you can point-and-click to build a list of needs. As this list lives in the cloud, everybody can see what everybody else is bringing, and of course the Host can see what everybody is bringing, thereby simplifying the whole process.

There are a couple of details in the "secret sauce" of the business model that will really make Potluck stand out from the competition, but I'd be remiss to lay it all out on the forums :) That's something I'm going over with potential partners as I go through the interview process. I am 100% confident that we will be able to generate decent revenue, and build the business organically (and thereby generating much more investor interest) if I can just find a partner that can build :) Between my current partner and I, we have everything but that final piece of the puzzle that a software engineer would bring to the table.

As I said earlier, at this point I'm going to just have to pay out of pocket to have the site built and once we start having money coming in the door I will have a much easier time just hiring developers outright and building the company from there. It would just be much easier and faster to have somebody onboard from the get-go for scalability/flexibility/planning/etc etc.

Given that we're entering a niche market, investors are a little stand-offish, but that's understandable. We'll make it work regardless LOL
 
Well, if you need help, PM me and you can shoot me an NDA and maybe I can help guide you on how to attack it.
 
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