Becoming Hirable?

[N7Valiant]

Alrighty, so I'm in a bit of a mid-life crisis at 29.

Typical millennial background:
Unemployed(technically I work as an IT Tutor for my local college for 4 hours a week, but I may as well be unemployed), living with my mom, last full-time job was 2 years ago in retail, only have a 2-year AAS in Welding which I never used because I didn't figure out I hated it until I was pretty much done with the degree.

I also jumped around to Accounting because I figure I was better with my head than with my hands. I figured right, but it was boring as hell(as in, I'll probably hang myself after a year), then I considered programming which my brother didn't think I had the right smarts for. Turns out, it was the right thing for me.

Why do I feel this way?

Well, first introductory programming course(ITS128), we were given free reign to write whatever program we wanted for the final project, provided it fulfilled some basic criteria(input validation, uses arrays, loops, etc.). I took it upon myself to do something ambitious(for that level): a Sudoku generator.

There were plenty of examples online that one could ostensibly just copy and paste, but pretty much all of them used contents that I wasn't familiar with(such as LINQ, which I still don't know how to use), and I didn't want to plagiarize, plus I wanted to be able to explain exactly how it works if the instructor asked. But I was able to get a conceptual explanation of how the code worked(backtracking) and was able to construct a working Sudoku generator by using a 3-Dimensional Array to keep track of the numbers that had already been randomly generated.

The ITS program gave us a broad array of subjects from hardware to networking to security to database, web development, and then programming. Out of all of those(with caveats), I showed the greatest aptitude for programming, and the web development(mostly hard coding HTML, CSS, JS without an aid like Dreamweaver). Most of what I do in my tutoring gig is largely helping other IT students with their programming code.

Then, as I finished my second to last course required for my 2-year AS/IT degree and prepare to take an internship as one of the requirements(very last thing left), the shoe dropped. Every employer hiring for anything even remotely related to programming or web development wanted someone with a Bachelor's in Computer Science. My degree only qualified me for some help desk, but that was pretty much it. Even among those, they still wanted people with a Bachelor's.

I'm not exactly a mute in the sense that I'm one of those people who softly mumble at you over the phone, I'm actually quite articulate in my Public Speaking class(as in, I speak quickly, loudly, and fluently), it's just that my social skills are literally 0. My contacts list on my phone only has immediate family members listed(mother, brother, father) and that's it.

Given that consideration, I'm not exactly eager to be put behind a customer service desk again, though i will if I have to. It's also because of this lack of social skills that I don't have any connections to any company that might allow me to bypass HR.


At this point, I'm largely trying to review some of the material to grab my certificates, as I wasn't sure which class qualified me to take which certification. I believe I just narrowly missed the window to take the 801 A+, so now I have to review for the more difficult 901 series. I'm averaging about 150 pages a day out of a 1300 page prep book, so I expect to be able to take that exam next week. I'm hoping to grab the Network+ and Security+ after that.


Thing is, I'm not too sure where to go from here. Pearl Harbor is a huge employer here, and every private information security firm contracts with the federal government. I did switch my degree path over to the new Information Security version of the AS/IT, which had me take 2 security courses(basically just all bookwork). I didn't take the last of the 3(ITS222) because it wasn't a requirement for the degree. Now however it seems like that 3rd class qualifies me for another security certification, and it's where the hands on work is(ethical hacking).

My instructor did dangle out an opportunity for the class to work at his private security company as part of the internship requirement, which I didn't take at the time because I was still under the impression that I could find something related to programming or web dev. It does Pen Testing for other companies to test their security. He did sell it as a good opportunity to put on my resume that I have real world experience doing that kind of work.

Thing is, I'm not sure if this is all BS. Yes, security is a big thing, but I don't know that I can be hired anywhere without a 4-year degree on my resume. In retrospect, even assuming I can somehow get a full scholarship, I expect a "4-year" degree usually means 5-6 years because that is exactly how my "2-year" degree turned out. I do get the sense that the older I get, the more difficult I will be to hire. Hence my urgency to get something now instead of screwing around another 2+ years.

My brother insists my education and certifications don't matter, and I can learn languages outside of college. Well, given how pissed off he seems that I don't have a job yet, I think I can safely assume he's not going to wait around while I'm sitting on my *** trying to pick up Java and Python, because he's already complaining that I'm wasting time trying to review for my certifications.

He also brought up a sort of "programming boot camp" that costs around $50k for 6 months, but I'm not sure how realistic that is given that I certainly don't have that kind of money. If I have to move, then I would somehow need to be subsidized in living costs for those 6 months. I also don't know if this is another oversold piece of garbage like Trump University or something.

Thoughts?

My current course of action right now is to grab my certifications, clean up my resume, then build my LinkedIn and Indeed profiles and start digging. I may not actually be able to do too much now since the last course I need for my degree(ITS293) is my internship and are almost full for the next semester. The other security class I didn't take(ITS222) is already full. I can't take the internship class without something already lined up(i.e. already hired), and my program coordinator is no help.

It also seems quite sickening and sadistic that I need a 4-year degree to get hired for most positions, but I can't get my 2-year degree until I get hired first.

 

[carnageX]

Hey, fellow developer here! Welcome to the forums.

Unfortunately, most bigger places won't look at you unless you have a 4 year degree; to be considered if you don't, you'd have to have some very specific skillset that they're looking for, or be very good at actual development and be able to stand out during the interview process, if you did indeed get to that stage.

You definitely can learn languages without ever setting foot inside a university setting, but then you're at a disadvantage if all of the places you're looking at require a 4 year degree in CompSci or something similar.

As for the coding bootcamps - yes they're usually legit - but usually for companies to send people to, to boost their skills. And usually even then only a week or 2 long and not 6 months.

What you may want to look into, depending on your area, is finding any smaller startups around you. If you're as good at development that you think and say you are, then usually they won't care as much about a degree, but rather your proficiency. A lot of places are wanting NodeJS experience - I would hit that hard, and try and find startups in your area if at all possible. That will at least be something to put on your resume if you don't end up liking it, or even just want to go and continue your education after (or during) something like that.

 

[Trotter]

I'm going to plug my company. I checked your IP and then checked openings in your area and found one. If you are using a VPN then it may not apply, but if not then take a look at it. It's not programming but it is semi-tech related, but most importantly it is a job. You can still work on the rest of your four year degree while doing it and then move on to greener pastures.

https://jobboard.timeforge.com/jobboard/displayJobs/corporation/65858/location/128586/job/166

 

[N7Valiant]

Hey, fellow developer here! Welcome to the forums.

Unfortunately, most bigger places won't look at you unless you have a 4 year degree; to be considered if you don't, you'd have to have some very specific skillset that they're looking for, or be very good at actual development and be able to stand out during the interview process, if you did indeed get to that stage.

So would it be true to say that it's a myth that you can simply apply anyway?

My brother is under the impression that I should just apply anyway to people asking for Bachelor's Degrees, basically saying it doesn't hurt me to just send a resume anyway. Thus I'm not sure how strict these companies actually are about those requirements.

My conversations with instructors would suggest that these HR people would simply skip over your resume without even looking at it if you don't list a BAS in the required field.

As for the coding bootcamps - yes they're usually legit - but usually for companies to send people to, to boost their skills. And usually even then only a week or 2 long and not 6 months.

Yes, I figured the experience would be kind of useless if they don't issue you an industry recognized certification that most companies would acknowledge.

What you may want to look into, depending on your area, is finding any smaller startups around you. If you're as good at development that you think and say you are, then usually they won't care as much about a degree, but rather your proficiency. A lot of places are wanting NodeJS experience - I would hit that hard, and try and find startups in your area if at all possible. That will at least be something to put on your resume if you don't end up liking it, or even just want to go and continue your education after (or during) something like that.

I'm in Honolulu, Hawaii. I can't say we're as big with the tech industry over here so much as we are with tourism. I'm willing to move, but I figure both Silicon Valley and NYC would be kind of moot since the cost of living would effectively negate any higher pay I would have otherwise gained.

I would describe programming as an aptitude, but not something I've honed to be a "marketable skill" as of yet. I'm only really familiar with C# and not Java, C++. I've dabbled in HTML, CSS, and touched slightly on Javascript. The entire problem with this community college program is that it's a "Jack-of-All-Trades, Master of None" approach. My only reference point alluding to my skill level is that my tutoring gig requires me to have an A in the programming class and that I help other people with their code. It could very well be a "big fish in a small pond" scenario where I might only be considered average if you throw me into a University classroom with other geeks who grew up with this stuff since they were 10.

I would say the startup pool here is very small, but the big employer around here is usually DoD or some related government agency. Though that's more security than programming. I haven't actually done any hands on work related to security yet, but would that largely involve a lot of logic work? I kind of feel that's my strong suit. Setting up networks via command line isn't my cup of tea, but I didn't exactly have issues with doing subnetting in my head.

 

[N7Valiant]

I'm going to plug my company. I checked your IP and then checked openings in your area and found one. If you are using a VPN then it may not apply, but if not then take a look at it. It's not programming but it is semi-tech related, but most importantly it is a job. You can still work on the rest of your four year degree while doing it and then move on to greener pastures.

https://jobboard.timeforge.com/jobboard/displayJobs/corporation/65858/location/128586/job/166

Thanks, I'll clean up my resume and give them a call.

 

[Trotter]

Thanks, I'll clean up my resume and give them a call.

If you are familiar with XP be sure to list it as most POS systems are still running it. Most repairs are mainly troubleshooting; if it is broke you swap it out and get it back up. Networking familiarity is a plus but you won't have anything too heavy duty. It's a decent gig and I have been doing it for 4.5 years so far. They provide everything: tools, phone, laptop, car, gas, insurance, vehicle maintenance, etc.

 

[carnageX]

So would it be true to say that it's a myth that you can simply apply anyway?

My brother is under the impression that I should just apply anyway to people asking for Bachelor's Degrees, basically saying it doesn't hurt me to just send a resume anyway. Thus I'm not sure how strict these companies actually are about those requirements.

My conversations with instructors would suggest that these HR people would simply skip over your resume without even looking at it if you don't list a BAS in the required field.

I would apply anyway, honestly. Doesn't hurt, and you never know. If they bring you in for an interview, you can explain to them what you know and such. That may put you ahead if you're knowledgeable in what they're looking for.

Yes, I figured the experience would be kind of useless if they don't issue you an industry recognized certification that most companies would acknowledge.


I'm in Honolulu, Hawaii. I can't say we're as big with the tech industry over here so much as we are with tourism. I'm willing to move, but I figure both Silicon Valley and NYC would be kind of moot since the cost of living would effectively negate any higher pay I would have otherwise gained.

Honestly, don't even need to go to huge cities like that. There's a lot of small startups even near where I live in South Dakota - it's just about figuring out the market.

I would describe programming as an aptitude, but not something I've honed to be a "marketable skill" as of yet. I'm only really familiar with C# and not Java, C++. I've dabbled in HTML, CSS, and touched slightly on Javascript. The entire problem with this community college program is that it's a "Jack-of-All-Trades, Master of None" approach. My only reference point alluding to my skill level is that my tutoring gig requires me to have an A in the programming class and that I help other people with their code. It could very well be a "big fish in a small pond" scenario where I might only be considered average if you throw me into a University classroom with other geeks who grew up with this stuff since they were 10.

If you know C#, you pretty much know Java . I'm also a C# / .NET Dev at where I work, but have had to help support an Android app based in Java before.

I would focus on which you would like to specialize in - back end (C#, Java, PHP, etc. - i.e. server-side languages) or more front-end (not talking design necessarily, but client-side languages) with stuff like NodeJS, HTML/CSS/JavaScript (and/or one of the JS frameworks like AngularJS, React.js, etc.). That would make you less of a "jack of all trades, master of none" and allow you to focus and hone your skills.

NodeJS is pretty big right now too, with a lot of startups wanting experience and developers with that skill.

I would say the startup pool here is very small, but the big employer around here is usually DoD or some related government agency. Though that's more security than programming. I haven't actually done any hands on work related to security yet, but would that largely involve a lot of logic work? I kind of feel that's my strong suit. Setting up networks via command line isn't my cup of tea, but I didn't exactly have issues with doing subnetting in my head.

Depends on what kind of security position. Could be application security / scanning, could be network security (what you mentioned at the end), etc.