What You've Just Bought!

[Smart_Guy]

Reviews hammer ASRock boards because Asus and MSI pay them to. I immediately discredit any reviewer or "techtuber" that wants to say this about an ASRock board but praise an Asus board that has been known to overvolt stuff out of the box on both platforms. Jay proved this twice on his channel in recent memory. He also went through 3 Asus ITX boards for AMD but his first ASRock ITX board worked like it should. I laughed really hard.

Maybe it's a problem with Asrock Z490 mobos? I think I saw the same reviewers testing AMD Asrock mobos getting good results. I don't think hammering Intel mobos but praising AMD mobos of the same manufacturer makes sense. Also Youtube does not pay as good anymore and I don't think the reviewers are okay with losing followers with something obvious. Then again I'm not saying you're wrong. I don't perfectly remember that the same reviewers actually did that. But anyways, The results they came out with for MSI are the results I'm getting so far as well. And it was cheaper than Asrock, again, if I remember correctly. I guess the latter two points are what matter in the end for the consumer.

How much did you over clock with your Z490 Asrock mobo? Managed to reach 5.1GHz?

 

[PP Mguire]

Maybe it's a problem with Asrock Z490 mobos? I think I saw the same reviewers testing AMD Asrock mobos getting good results. I don't think hammering Intel mobos but praising AMD mobos of the same manufacturer makes sense. Also Youtube does not pay as good anymore and I don't think the reviewers are okay with losing followers with something obvious. Then again I'm not saying you're wrong. I don't perfectly remember that the same reviewers actually did that. But anyways, The results they came out with for MSI are the results I'm getting so far as well. And it was cheaper than Asrock, again, if I remember correctly. I guess the latter two points are what matter in the end for the consumer.

How much did you over clock with your Z490 Asrock mobo? Managed to reach 5.1GHz?

Jay made mention of ASRock specifically giving more volts to their chip on AMD like it was the end of the world, but also said the same thing about their Asus boards like it was nothing. It's on both sides. It's specifically on how the boards handle boost on both camps. MSI got caught recently, but Asus hasn't because they're slick about it.

I don't have 10th gen or Z490, but I do have an ASRock X299 board that I got my 7800x to 5GHz on.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Jay made mention of ASRock specifically giving more volts to their chip on AMD like it was the end of the world, but also said the same thing about their Asus boards like it was nothing. It's on both sides. It's specifically on how the boards handle boost on both camps. MSI got caught recently, but Asus hasn't because they're slick about it.

I don't have 10th gen or Z490, but I do have an ASRock X299 board that I got my 7800x to 5GHz on.

I thought you rejected Asrock's criticism because you had a Z490 board and tested it yourself with good results like I did with MSI. My bad.
I went back to look and it's as I remembered indeed. The reviewer is Hardware Unboxed. They got bad results for Asrock Z490 boards but good results for Asrock B450 boards. I also remember they commended Intel Asrock in pre-10th gen. Intels. I think that's why I got my previous Asrock in the first place. 7800x is 3 gens. old. Maybe AMD paid them to commend B450 boards and bash the Z490 boards?

 

[Nukem]

I got a REALLY good deal on the Gigabyte mobo, which is the only reason I stayed with the 8700k. (100.00 new) I had a 9900k which I gave to one of the kids when his 7600k died... (He picked up the ASRock Z490 PRO-4) And TBH, I only game on weekends, so this CPU still performs well for me. Unless INTEL pulls ahead with some major advances, I'm gonna go AMD the next time around.

I've actually asked some of the reviewers why they don't use ASRock more often and 3 of them replied very similar answers: "ASRock boards don't OC as well when going for the record or high benchmarks" So I take it with a grain of salt and move on.

PP Mac turned me onto ASRock a long time ago and I have been a fanboi ever since. RMA and tech support is very, very good and that means a lot. But times being what they are, I didn't have the patience to wait for stock come back in. But most reviewers gave this Gigabyte board a solid good buy, so I went with it.

 

[PP Mguire]

I thought you rejected Asrock's criticism because you had a Z490 board and tested it yourself with good results like I did with MSI. My bad.
I went back to look and it's as I remembered indeed. The reviewer is Hardware Unboxed. They got bad results for Asrock Z490 boards but good results for Asrock B450 boards. I also remember they commended Intel Asrock in pre-10th gen. Intels. I think that's why I got my previous Asrock in the first place. 7800x is 3 gens. old. Maybe AMD paid them to commend B450 boards and bash the Z490 boards?

Bad results in what way? I rejected the criticism because I've seen reviewers, more specifically "techtubers" criticize an ASRock board for the same thing they will praise an Asus board for. Basically all I was saying, and that MSI and Asus are known to pay for a positive review or better title with MSI getting caught recently. In terms of HEDT 7800x is 3 gens old yes, but X299 as a platform is still current. I can buy a Cascade Lake X chip and toss it on the same board. Goes to show that everything current is still a Skylake successor.
It's like I always say, take anything a Youtuber says with a grain of salt. Unless it's Gamer's Nexus, that dude goes into serious detail and can't be bought.

I got a REALLY good deal on the Gigabyte mobo, which is the only reason I stayed with the 8700k. (100.00 new) I had a 9900k which I gave to one of the kids when his 7600k died... (He picked up the ASRock Z490 PRO-4) And TBH, I only game on weekends, so this CPU still performs well for me. Unless INTEL pulls ahead with some major advances, I'm gonna go AMD the next time around.

I've actually asked some of the reviewers why they don't use ASRock more often and 3 of them replied very similar answers: "ASRock boards don't OC as well when going for the record or high benchmarks" So I take it with a grain of salt and move on.

PP Mac turned me onto ASRock a long time ago and I have been a fanboi ever since. RMA and tech support is very, very good and that means a lot. But times being what they are, I didn't have the patience to wait for stock come back in. But most reviewers gave this Gigabyte board a solid good buy, so I went with it.

I guess what we both can ask is, how's your kid's ASRock Z490 board lol.

Edit:
Being genuinely interested I took a look at the lowest rated ASRock board and it's the Z490 Phantom Gaming 4. The reviews show complaints of not being able to overclock the 10700k over 5GHz because of VRM.
https://www.amazon.com/ASRock-Z490-...7343Y5AP9BY&psc=1&refRID=5K4K018147343Y5AP9BY

Let's take a look at that compared to the ASRock B450 Steel Legend which is a highly regarded midrange AMD board that's slightly more expensive. Look at the VRM heatsink difference. When we take and compare a lower power consuming chip on a higher end VRM design vs a high power consuming chip trying to squeeze 200+W out of a lower end VRM design....yea. There's the issue. Why somebody would try to mate a 500 dollar CPU to a 115 dollar motherboard and overclock it is beyond me. Those boards are designed for i5s and i3s not a 200W+ monster after overclock. It's been this way for years.

I mean, this is 15 bucks cheaper and the VRM cooling is much better. Simple case of people not paying a damn bit of attention before buying.
https://www.amazon.com/B460-PRO4-soporta-generación-Procesadores/dp/B0895LFKHL/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=asrock+b460&qid=1597610002&s=electronics&sr=1-1

What's worse, and this IS a fault on ASRock is the B460 has a 9 phase VRM that's cooled practically, and the Z490 Gaming 4 has a 10 phase with less VRM cooling.

Edit2:
That MSI board you got SG is a 200 dollar board here. The comparison would be the Extreme 4. The VRM cooling is actually beefier on the ASRock and cheaper cost.
https://www.amazon.com/ASRock-Z490-...rock+z490&qid=1597610215&s=electronics&sr=1-1

 

[Nukem]

His board (so far) is working like a champ. Don't know what his OC is, but I do know he's got something on it. It's paired with a 5700XT and my old 16GB sticks. (He's getting back into web developing and coding and it was just being wasted in my rig)

 

[Smart_Guy]

Bad results in what way? I rejected the criticism because I've seen reviewers, more specifically "techtubers" criticize an ASRock board for the same thing they will praise an Asus board for. Basically all I was saying, and that MSI and Asus are known to pay for a positive review or better title with MSI getting caught recently. In terms of HEDT 7800x is 3 gens old yes, but X299 as a platform is still current. I can buy a Cascade Lake X chip and toss it on the same board. Goes to show that everything current is still a Skylake successor.
It's like I always say, take anything a Youtuber says with a grain of salt. Unless it's Gamer's Nexus, that dude goes into serious detail and can't be bought.
I guess what we both can ask is, how's your kid's ASRock Z490 board lol.

Edit:
Being genuinely interested I took a look at the lowest rated ASRock board and it's the Z490 Phantom Gaming 4. The reviews show complaints of not being able to overclock the 10700k over 5GHz because of VRM.
https://www.amazon.com/ASRock-Z490-...7343Y5AP9BY&psc=1&refRID=5K4K018147343Y5AP9BY

Let's take a look at that compared to the ASRock B450 Steel Legend which is a highly regarded midrange AMD board that's slightly more expensive. Look at the VRM heatsink difference. When we take and compare a lower power consuming chip on a higher end VRM design vs a high power consuming chip trying to squeeze 200+W out of a lower end VRM design....yea. There's the issue. Why somebody would try to mate a 500 dollar CPU to a 115 dollar motherboard and overclock it is beyond me. Those boards are designed for i5s and i3s not a 200W+ monster after overclock. It's been this way for years.

I mean, this is 15 bucks cheaper and the VRM cooling is much better. Simple case of people not paying a damn bit of attention before buying.
https://www.amazon.com/B460-PRO4-soporta-generación-Procesadores/dp/B0895LFKHL/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=asrock+b460&qid=1597610002&s=electronics&sr=1-1

What's worse, and this IS a fault on ASRock is the B460 has a 9 phase VRM that's cooled practically, and the Z490 Gaming 4 has a 10 phase with less VRM cooling.

Edit2:
That MSI board you got SG is a 200 dollar board here. The comparison would be the Extreme 4. The VRM cooling is actually beefier on the ASRock and cheaper cost.
https://www.amazon.com/ASRock-Z490-...rock+z490&qid=1597610215&s=electronics&sr=1-1

As I remember I said (I have bad memory, lol); bad results were in bad OC in relation to other boards. VRM were hot too. I don't like sustained high heat in anything as it reduces life in the long run. And those living in hot places can have a word in this too. I keep my parts for ages. I remember MSI reached 5.1GHz with reasonable temps while Asrock barely reached 4.8GHz with much higher temps. But that's just from the back of my head. I look around and decide then forget what I did for that. All with i5 10600K. Not sure about i7+ as they were not my interest.

Yes, my board is ~$200. Before I looked up reviews I looked for Asrock as I had great experience with it before. Long story short I came across this MSI and it was cheaper than all Asrocks I managed to find (stocks are different now so no use finding links) by the time and it had wireless LAN unlike that Asrock if I remember correctly. I didn't look at how beefy the VRM's were as looks can be deceiving (well I actually know nothing about this, lol), I looked up tests and destiny took me to Hardware Unboxed. I don't remember if I saw other reviewers.

Got the board from Newegg.

I'm not saying my finding is definitely correct, it's just my finding that I felt right for me after looking around. So I could be wrong.

What made me look up reviews was not finding the Asrock of my dream (and budget), actually. I think it was to compare MSI, Gigabyte and Asus, accordingly.

Hardware Unboxed also criticized MSI and commended Asrock on some other grounds too. I don't think MSI would pay them for commending them in my board's case after that.

AMD boards and i7+ cases are irrelevant to me since I had no interest in them. But I think I saw that ~$200 MSI board doing well with 10700K. Not sure, tho.

Specs on paper do not matter as much. Actual performance/results is what matters. 4 Cyl. Camry is quicker than many early 90's 6 Cyl. cars. This even applies to some modern cars.

It doesn't feel right to reject Youtubers but exclude a Youtuber. This makes it subjective, don't you think? Well it's okay for personal decisions, but not to base it for definite judgements to generalize. Subject specific maybe, but not objective. No one is always right

 

[PP Mguire]

As I remember I said (I have bad memory, lol); bad results were in bad OC in relation to other boards. VRM were hot too. I don't like sustained high heat in anything as it reduces life in the long run. And those living in hot places can have a word in this too. I keep my parts for ages. I remember MSI reached 5.1GHz with reasonable temps while Asrock barely reached 4.8GHz with much higher temps. But that's just from the back of my head. I look around and decide then forget what I did for that. All with i5 10600K. Not sure about i7+ as they were not my interest.

VRMs actually normally run hot, in this case you kinda repeated what I already said. I pretty much verified what you said by simply looking at what would have been compared as all other ASRock boards have much better VRM heatsinks than the Gaming 4. Maybe it's a language barrier on that part, but we're in agreement. That board makes no sense.

Hardware Unboxed also criticized MSI and commended Asrock on some other grounds too. I don't think MSI would pay them for commending them in my board's case after that.

I think you're taking that in left field (translation, our of context). I'm saying they're known to pay for positivity in general. This isn't opinion, this is actually proven fact and many Youtubers and tabloids published on this a couple weeks ago. I also have my own personal experience with these two companies trying to bride for positive reviews 10 years ago.

AMD boards and i7+ cases are irrelevant to me since I had no interest in them. But I think I saw that ~$200 MSI board doing well with 10700K. Not sure, tho.

To be fair, you mentioned the positive ASRock board cases. I merely put their speculation into fact as to why they performed better, then when on to say why it made no sense even comparing a cheaper B460 ASrock's VRM setup vs the Z490 Gaming 4 VRM setup.

Specs on paper do not matter as much. Actual performance/results is what matters. 4 Cyl. Camry is quicker than many early 90's 6 Cyl. cars. This even applies to some modern cars.

As somebody who drives a 1999 Mustang GT I know this very well. The 2015 Evoboost 4cyl has more power and torque than my 90s V8. That's just the nature of the emissions boon from yesteryears. In this case, paper specs do matter. A bigger heatsink on a 9 phase VRM is definitely going to hold an overclock better than a piece of tin on a 10 phase for sure. That's why I said it makes no sense for ASRock to butcher their cheaper Z490 board like that. Not only that most reviewers don't bother with anything lower than an i7, and in this case I looked at actual Amazon reviews from people both complaining they couldn't clock their 10700k on that particular board. It lined up with what you said which made me look into it.

It doesn't feel right to reject Youtubers but exclude a Youtuber. This makes it subjective, don't you think? Well it's okay for personal decisions, but not to base it for definite judgements to generalize. Subject specific maybe, but not objective. No one is always right

I reject most Youtubers because they're mostly all jokes when it comes to actual hardware knowledge. This is why I specifically mention Gamer's Nexus because Steve actually knows his shit. He breaks things down in a Youtube video like I do and his viewership and subs reflect that of the crowd he draws compared to say Jay or Linus. When it comes to hardware I'm not a subjective person and when I'm being subjective I flat out say this is straight up my own personal opinion. This can be seen in me being curious as to what you were talking about, doing my own looking into the subject, and making my own dissertation of the situation even bashing the brand I like because of their flawed VRM choices for their lower end boards. And to be fair to myself (and Nukem can probably agree) there's a specific reason I like ASRock outside of all the other board brands because I've used them all. Even Abit, Albatron, Epox, Soyo, DFI, plus all the big names still around. It's just 2 decades of forming my own judgement and experiences compiled down to my decision being ASRock for the past 9 years for a specific reason. MSI still makes good boards, and I gave them a 9/10 on my last MSI board review, a 790FX GD70. I just can't stand by their shady business and PR practice. Make a good board and it'll sell itself.

 

[Smart_Guy]

VRMs actually normally run hot, in this case you kinda repeated what I already said. I pretty much verified what you said by simply looking at what would have been compared as all other ASRock boards have much better VRM heatsinks than the Gaming 4. Maybe it's a language barrier on that part, but we're in agreement. That board makes no sense.

Well your question was still there. I couldn't just leave you hanging and you could have edited it out

I think you're taking that in left field (translation, our of context). I'm saying they're known to pay for positivity in general. This isn't opinion, this is actually proven fact and many Youtubers and tabloids published on this a couple weeks ago. I also have my own personal experience with these two companies trying to bride for positive reviews 10 years ago.

But bribery accusation is not something to just tell. Were there any court statements? It's possible, or course, and I believe your personal experience. It's just who it was. Any corrupt individual can give a bad name to any firm one way or another. And those individuals are in every single firm somewhere. But in the end they are all business. I only care about specific services that I want, not their name. 10 years ago is far away, anyway. I also had a good Asrock 8 years ago contrary to the questionable Z490 Asrock now. All my builds have mixed brands.

As somebody who drives a 1999 Mustang GT I know this very well. The 2015 Evoboost 4cyl has more power and torque than my 90s V8. That's just the nature of the emissions boon from yesteryears. In this case, paper specs do matter. A bigger heatsink on a 9 phase VRM is definitely going to hold an overclock better than a piece of tin on a 10 phase for sure. That's why I said it makes no sense for ASRock to butcher their cheaper Z490 board like that. Not only that most reviewers don't bother with anything lower than an i7, and in this case I looked at actual Amazon reviews from people both complaining they couldn't clock their 10700k on that particular board. It lined up with what you said which made me look into it.

Specs on paper do not matter "as much" as actual performance/results, not that they just don't matter. They do matter. I meant there could be some hidden details like something internal. Cool car, BTW. I own an old car myself (W124 1992 300E) and I prefer natural aspirated engines. Ecoboost (for a moment I thought there was something else called evoboost) is an additional tech over the main part. I presume your 90s V8 was naturally aspirated. Ecoboost is meant to increase performance. Other forced induction methods are used to decrease gas consumption. These two points make exceptions.
Don't worry too much about this reply, tho. It's more of trying to clarify what I meant, nothing important related to the discussion. And I wanted to talk about cars.

I reject most Youtubers because they're mostly all jokes when it comes to actual hardware knowledge. This is why I specifically mention Gamer's Nexus because Steve actually knows his shit. He breaks things down in a Youtube video like I do and his viewership and subs reflect that of the crowd he draws compared to say Jay or Linus. When it comes to hardware I'm not a subjective person and when I'm being subjective I flat out say this is straight up my own personal opinion. This can be seen in me being curious as to what you were talking about, doing my own looking into the subject, and making my own dissertation of the situation even bashing the brand I like because of their flawed VRM choices for their lower end boards. And to be fair to myself (and Nukem can probably agree) there's a specific reason I like ASRock outside of all the other board brands because I've used them all. Even Abit, Albatron, Epox, Soyo, DFI, plus all the big names still around. It's just 2 decades of forming my own judgement and experiences compiled down to my decision being ASRock for the past 9 years for a specific reason. MSI still makes good boards, and I gave them a 9/10 on my last MSI board review, a 790FX GD70. I just can't stand by their shady business and PR practice. Make a good board and it'll sell itself.

Just to be safe, I didn't mean to be rude when I said your assessment sounded subjective to me.
It's true that Steve is knowledgeable, but he's being too technical. To me as a consumer, I want someone practical to show me results-numbers. But this is just a neutral comment. GNex does give numbers, and I basically trust them, but it just happened that I didn't cross ways with them.

 

[TechnoChicken]

...I reject most Youtubers because they're mostly all jokes when it comes to actual hardware knowledge. This is why I specifically mention Gamer's Nexus because Steve actually knows his shit. He breaks things down in a Youtube video like I do and his viewership and subs reflect that of the crowd he draws compared to say Jay or Linus...

Interesting view. Have you even watched any of jay's or linus's stuff? I know a good chunk of LTT videos are for entertainment purposes, might check out that gamer's nexus later though...