Setting up networks for local shops

[rinosaur]

Hi everyone,

I just joined up to this forum after searching for the proper place to ask a few questions and this place seems to accept a variety of topics.
Ok, here in Houston new businesses are sprawling at an alarming rate, and I see this as a perfect opportunity to get networking contracts and make some money.
The businesses I am targeting are small stores in strip centers that have 2 rooms at max, so this doesn't seem too hard.
I'm pretty young, 18 in 4 months, and have decent skills in this field. I have completed 8 hours of a CCNA networking academy at a local college through my high school (dual-credit program). I am plan to take my INTRO test very soon (1/2 way ccna). Also planning on taking A+ hardware within next 2 weeks. I have a lot of hands on experience with my own computer, constantly modifying it/swapping out parts. My instructor tells me about his previous students getting handsome contracts at local shops, so I want to take a shot at it (successfully).

My first question is:
Is setting up a 4 computer network at a shop the same/similar to setting one at home? Are there extra skills required? Is there something I need to know (probably).

2nd:
How should I start this?
I should first ask the manager what his needs for the network are, wired/wireless, number of computers/type. Later, specifics on firewall?

3rd:
How do I charge for this contract?
1. Price of equipment + labor per hour?

2. Fixed price for the whole thing?

And how much is a reasonable price to ask for since I do not have a professional degree. I know it needs to be significantly lower to compete with people who do have degree/certs.

Should I even try for these contracts with my limited formal education? I really don't want to pass up these opportunities. There are about 20 stores that are coming up a 3 minute drive from my house. I would like to set up atleast 1 network.

Thanks to all in advance.

 

[Win2kpatcher]

Hello! Welcome to the forums! Sounds like you are excited about dipping into the network industry. Personally I say GO FOR IT. Hands on is the best way to get ahead in the industry and being able to back it up with the education you are getting will be even that much better.

I have done quite a few home offices, and regular offices around where I live and have made out pretty good. I will answer some of your questions and provide some of my personal findings...

1) Yes essetially it is the same. The major differences you will run into are usually physical elements. If they want wired then you are responsible for designing the infrastucture and foundation. Figuring out how you are going to route the wire is the hardest part. Usually you must do lots of work in the roof or underground to make it clean.

Make sure you are familiar and comfortable with creating your own CAT5 cables. Be familiar with how to wire a patch panel and wall RJ45 plates. With the cheap cost of wireless though most companies I do now prefer this so it eliminates a LOT of headaches. Once you get into big game though (500+ PC network) wired is the only way to go...This is when I hire someone else to wire the place for me..hahah..

2) INFO INFO INFO!! Be sure to get all the INFO you need from the owner/manager on what he wants..everything from the network, computers, printers...does he want to use a central printer with network capability? Wireless/wired? Most important ask what his budget is..and does this budget factor in labor costs? Is security important? If so would they want to spend money on a good hardware firewall? Do they want a domain? Is a workgroup good enough?Do they need a central server?

Be sure you explain to them that everything must be legal or you will not do the work..Meaning if they have 6 computers with 98 and have an XP disc that "his friend" gave him..he wants all his PC's running this i"copy" of XP... DO NOT do the work..YOU will be liable for installing illegal software and YOU will go to prison

3)
A) Yes price of equipment always up front..and labor per hour..NEVER give one price for a job or "flat rate" as no one job will ever be the same.

B)No..NEVER do a fixed price..You can try it once..but when you find something goes wrong (and it will) you will slap yourself in the face for giving away so much free labor.


I dont do an official contract strictly so that I do not get taxed..I try and keep my job under the official tax limit..which here in Cali is like $600 or something...If they go over this amount they legally have to 1040 you which you will have to pay when it comes tax time...What I do is have THEM buy all the parts..you give them a list and links to all the parts they will need in detail..this way all you have to deal with them is the labor amount.. For each job in a small office (10 PC's or so) I usually clear a $575 profit clean and clear.

I am also there support person so anytime they have any problems they call me and I charge them $70/hr.

Starting out I was doing $50/hr then as I became known around here with a good rep I increased the rate I almost want to dump my primary job and open a business..but i love just collecting the money and not worrying about legal crap

 

[Cobalt]

Hehe you've certainly got it better than here then. We have to be careful, the Inland Revenue is quick to find people who aren't declaring quite everything they earn...

Great advice above, the key is not to cut corners because cutting corners will come back to haunt you. Doing things "on the cheap" may well look good in the short term, mean you can quote low and so forth, but a poorly set up network will give you headaches later on. You want to also allow for expansion - if they want another machine, where is it likely to go, is it easier to add to the infrastructure? This is where wireless is very helpful, put the machien anywhere as long as it's in range of a Wireless Access Point you're fine. Also be prepared for other additions, such as printers. It's all well and good saying yes you can add a printer to the network, but will it be easy to do?

Also bear security in mind. I'm a fan of Mac filtering personally, as well as the appropriate level of protection if the network is connected to the internet (e.g. firewall) You don't want others gaining access to the network or the internet via the network so keep things tight, passwords, encrpytion, keys and so forth are advisable.

Although these may be fairly small, if the business gets to rely on the network and they have problems it will be you they come after for losing business, so again do it properly and remember the 7 P's

If you're not aware of that one, here at least, it goes Proper Planning and Procedure Prevents P... Poor Performance

Good luck, hope you get some business, have fun and even if thigns don't go smoothly learn from your mistakes and don't be put off. I've bodged enough things to make the average person never want to see a PC again but I'm still at it

John

 

[rinosaur]

Thank you guys for the advise and encouragement. In case I have to do wired, I've learned how to punch in patch panels and make cat 5 cable in class and have a decent spool in my room and just got some connectors on ebay.

I was just a bit iffy on the labor per hour because I can always find equipment for much cheaper than retail (which the manager doesn't need to know).
Just as an example, the Netgear wgr614 msrp is set at $84 + tax but I can find many new in box at Amazon Marketplace for a bit over $30 shipped.
A D-Link DWL-G510 wireless G adapter PCI card msrp is set at $50, but I can buy this at Computer3G for $24 with free shipping as long as order is over $50.
So equipment msrp is $84 + say 5 adapters $250 = $334.
But I can find these at about $155 so this is near $200 difference between equipment suggested worth and what I paid. So manager pays me say $500 for good equipment and labor, but I just have a little extra profit margin since I can choose good places to buy.

Also, what will the manager think if I get stuck somewhere in the installation process? I can't freeze time until I become productive again, right?

Anyway, thanks in advance.

 

[Win2kpatcher]

You will always get stuck in the installation process thats a given..You simply speak to them professionally, explain in detail what is going on, explain how you plan to solve the problem, let them know you are in control of the situation rather than the situation in control of you.

Most importantly learn from your mistakes..take notes..so that the next time it goes a bit more smoothly and you avoid some errors. Be prepared on the first couple jobs to make very little, nothing, or even pay out of your own pocket Once you pass these stepping stones it will be all cherry pie.

 

[rinosaur]

Thank you again for the reply,
I'll be on my way to try to do some work within the next 2 weeks probably. I'll report on what happens later.

 

[elitesoldier]

I'd have to say the best thing to do is to get a professional set up. Get a web site, maybe some sort of business name, a business shirt with the logo on it or something. Just to give the impression that you are a "professional" and not some kid who thinks he knows all this networking stuff, but really doesn't know anything.