Sound 101

[El_Roberto]

Wow ive just read through this and its a great help but i have a question, why does the the volume level indicator use -db? i.e. -db100 is quiet -db0 is insane. i have a theory but would like to know if im right (-db means that it is reducing the signal by that much. ie when its at 0 its putting out max amplification so it is reducing the signal by 0db)

 

[EricB]

ignore the volume knob. they are never accurate in those terms. just don't clip your speakers

 

[RalliArt882]

Yeah this topic is awesome. About 6 years ago my dad bought a Klipsch Reference series 5.1 system and a Klipsch RSW-12" sub, with the heaviest Marantz reciever I've ever picked up. People brag about their home systems all the time, but I have yet to hear anything better than what we have. We've been through three HDTVs yet we still have the audio stuff.

Thats what I love about audio. If you buy good audiophile stuff, it will last a lifetime. And I agree with you Eric. I think alot of companies are cutting corners. Now I see Klipsch speakers in Best Buy, which I never used to see. And they don't look near as nice as our Reference stuff.

I'm only 18 and in college so I don't have alot of money to throw into home audio, but I am throwing some into my car. But are the audio companies cutting corners too and sacrificing quality for marketability? I just put in an Alpine head unit, and I've got a Rockford Fosgate T500.1BD hooked up to two RF 12"s running 1ohm. And it does exactly what you were talking about: sounding like an atomic bomb going off at 45hz but getting quiter as you go lower lower. Is there much I can do about it? I'd much rather have a flat response.

 

[Oreo]

Unfortunately commercial audio systems in cars are designed for BIG bass only, however i believe eric made his own enclosures and is very good at car audio - i am sure he could help you out.

and ralliart, there are alot better audio systems than a big japanese marantz av amp and 5.1 klipsche speakers

 

[EricB]

Yeah this topic is awesome. About 6 years ago my dad bought a Klipsch Reference series 5.1 system and a Klipsch RSW-12" sub, with the heaviest Marantz reciever I've ever picked up. People brag about their home systems all the time, but I have yet to hear anything better than what we have. We've been through three HDTVs yet we still have the audio stuff.

Thats what I love about audio. If you buy good audiophile stuff, it will last a lifetime. And I agree with you Eric. I think alot of companies are cutting corners. Now I see Klipsch speakers in Best Buy, which I never used to see. And they don't look near as nice as our Reference stuff.

I'm only 18 and in college so I don't have alot of money to throw into home audio, but I am throwing some into my car. But are the audio companies cutting corners too and sacrificing quality for marketability? I just put in an Alpine head unit, and I've got a Rockford Fosgate T500.1BD hooked up to two RF 12"s running 1ohm. And it does exactly what you were talking about: sounding like an atomic bomb going off at 45hz but getting quiter as you go lower lower. Is there much I can do about it? I'd much rather have a flat response.

the old Klipsch was super high end back in the day as were the marantz. oreo you should use google before you open your mouth. that sub is one of the best commercial sub that you can get. it retailed at around 1500.00 bucks. it played down to 22hz. I remember it having a passive radiator which btw can go deeper than sealed or ported if properly setup. these new ones don't seem to have it. I use to have some klipsch horns. if you ever heard a horn you now that their sound suck as they were too peaky especially in the midrange area. Klipsch had an amazing crossover to make them the best high mid driver that you ever heard

RSW-12

RalliArt882

it sad, but car audio is now worse than home audio. I personally use high end drivers for my mid and highs, yet no these days car audio store will sell them. I get them through partsexpress, madisound and meniscus audio

there a store around here (mobile sounds) that put all of their old highend drivers on the clearance rack. I'm the ony guy that will even look at them. I've paid 100 bucks on a 1000.00 phoenix gold component set that contain morel drivers. everybody else will spend 100-200 bucks on some cheap pioneer 6x9's

Morel ® Loudspeakers

 

[Oreo]

I didn't know he was on about old, old klipsche i know there good you told me a while back eric. but i still disagree about the marantz.. not even there old ones, i dislike how they sound. I don't care how high end they were, to me, i don't like them - just my opinion.

There current top end amplifier sounds good, but it's too bassy. Now what i do think sounds bloody good is the darkvoice headphone amplfier hooked up to high sensitivity speakers - sure it plays real real quiet but hey it only outputs 1 watt and is a headphone amplfier. now if they made that full size so it kicked out 30 watts i would buy it anyday.

and eric if you ever get a chance, sit in Volvo's brand new S80 or S60 car. It's fitted out with a pretty decent amp and dynaudio speakers, it sounds pretty decent as far as car audio goes. I saw a picture of the door once, they havnt just bolted the drivers into the car door they have built some pretty decent - high density MDF enclosures inside the door.

 

[RalliArt882]

Yeah please don't confuse my Klipsch setup with the stuff you see in Best Buy lol. Klipsch must have sold out to Best Buy or something because when we bought our RF and Marantz back in '02, you'd never see klipsch in those stores.

But now our RF speakers and Marantz are sitting in the closet collecting dust. This is because everything is made for HDMI these days Our new house has Klipsch speakers built into the ceiling running off a 7.1 Onkyo reciever in the media closet. So now the only thing we can still use is the RSW12.

And regarding car audio, I guess i'm going to stick with my booming setup because all of the high end audiphile subs weight a ton, cost a fortune, require expensive enclosures, and require more power than my electrical system can handle. The only two things I still need to replace are my Bose speakers and speaker amp that came with the truck (eww). I was thinking about Alpine Type R but I guess that's probably not very good according to what I've read so far. So is Alpine truly bad these days? My dad back in the 80s and 90s always put Alpine stuff in his cars, so I guess I was taking after him by getting my Alpine head unit and considering their speakers.

 

[EricB]

Yeah please don't confuse my Klipsch setup with the stuff you see in Best Buy lol. Klipsch must have sold out to Best Buy or something because when we bought our RF and Marantz back in '02, you'd never see klipsch in those stores.

But now our RF speakers and Marantz are sitting in the closet collecting dust. This is because everything is made for HDMI these days Our new house has Klipsch speakers built into the ceiling running off a 7.1 Onkyo reciever in the media closet. So now the only thing we can still use is the RSW12.

And regarding car audio, I guess i'm going to stick with my booming setup because all of the high end audiphile subs weight a ton, cost a fortune, require expensive enclosures, and require more power than my electrical system can handle. The only two things I still need to replace are my Bose speakers and speaker amp that came with the truck (eww). I was thinking about Alpine Type R but I guess that's probably not very good according to what I've read so far. So is Alpine truly bad these days? My dad back in the 80s and 90s always put Alpine stuff in his cars, so I guess I was taking after him by getting my Alpine head unit and considering their speakers.

I was the same way with the alpine stuff. I always used an alpine head unit until 2004 when they sopp making the high quality ones. nobody made any head end stuff now but eclipse. I went back alpine this year for 2 reasons. my deck

Alpine Electronics of America, Inc. - iDA-X100

1. reliability. my 700.00 eclipse deck screen died a month after the warranty expired so they won't honor it.

2. if you buy this you could get the high quality sound
Alpine Electronics of America, Inc. - RUX-C701
Alpine Electronics of America, Inc. - PXA-H701

the 2 above cost 900.bucks and the head unit 400.

Alpine Electronics of America, Inc. - KTX-100EQ

I became ****ed 2 months later when they introduce this imprint thing which cost 250 bucks and basically does the same job. it put the alpine deck at 4 volts and has both type of eq's (parametric and graphic), digital crossover and time alignment. my pieces have way more precision and controls, but I would have settle for this and pocketed the extra 650.

you see before 2003, alpine included all of these feature of the imprint in their top head units. it was called bass engine pro.

RalliArt882 go to

Parts-Express.com - Speakers, Speaker Building, Home Audio and Video, Pro Audio, Electronic Parts & Accessories or
www.madisound.comm

they have high quality speakers for the low. examples

Parts Express:Tang Band W6-1721 6-1/2" Underhung Midbass Driver
Parts Express:Audax AP170G2 6-1/2" Shielded Coated Paper Woofer
DX19TD05-04 Vifa 3/4" 4 ohm tweeter from Madisound
Vifa Logic BC14SG69-04 woofer, 4 ohm, truncated from Madisound
W17RC38-S 6.5" 4 Ohm Shielded Magnet Wool Cone from Madisound


vifa is a good brand. most speaker companies buy their speaker and put their own name on them

one thing that you guys have that we didn't in the 90's is enormous power caps they can replace 2-3 batteries and keep your alternator stock. I have a hundred farad fosgate cap that retails for 1500 bucks, but you can get for 350 on ebay.

to run my old 3-4,000 watts system, I needed a beef up alternator (which caused you to burn more gas, but gas prices weren't an issue in the 90's) 3 batteries and a cap. now I run a similar system (3,000 watts) in my wife car with the stock alternator and the 100 farad fosgate cap

 

[Oreo]

Eric the system you mention above, is this nice high quality flat sound or is it still bassy and typical car audio that 17year olds boom down he street with ??

 

[EricB]

you tell me. no matter how much I talk, you just don't know me. do you really think that I would have a system like that? I still need to replace those audiobahn's 5 1/4 with the phoenix gold morels (I pulled my back so i didn't finish the system yet) and finish laying out the birch wood on the 12's and put the finish on them.

I have a 2000 watt autotek and a 100 farad fosgate cap in the spare tire well. I have a 600 watts rms phoenix gold running my Mids and a 150 x 4 watts rms infinity amp running my tweeters and my rear fill

my front mids speakers is crossover at 90 hz and 3,200hz bandpass at 30db per octave. the tweeter are 3200 at 30db per octave. my rear fill 4 inch midbass with tweeter for rear fill is crossed over at 360 hz highpass at 30db per octave. my sub is 90 hz lowpass

I have to turn my highs down as they overpower the bass