How to protect computer data on machine about to work on

[mynetdude]

I'm guessing this is the proper place to talk about it,

There is nothing worse than finding out that some of your data is missing after a PC repair tech tries to remove some malware/viruses, etc. As a repair tech, this is one of my utmost concern; making sure that their files aren't lost.

Generally when I get a computer to my shop, I do a full backup with Macrium Reflect, it protects me in the event something goes very wrong that shouldn't have. And, generally I charge the customer for the time it takes me to setup the backup whether that means installing the software or pulling the drive and slaving it to the shop machine and running the imaging software from that and this time is only negligible and costs the customer not more than $2-$8 (but that's just only for handling the backup process and removing/re-inserting the hard drive).

I also get calls to help a customer onsite so the rules of the job changes; I don't have my shop machine with me of course and the customer is paying FULL for every second I am there even if I have to wait on the customer; they are being billed for my time unlike at my shop I only charge for actual time that I am actually doing something with their computer so this presents a problem for them:

A backup can take 20-90 (more or less can happen beyond 20-90 mins) minutes depending on how fast that machine is and how much data they have. Seeing as this is costly to the onsite customer they're going to be paying about $25-$65 for the backup portion that doesn't even benefit the PC getting fixed.

So what would you do? Give the customer an ultimatum: A) say that you can't work on their PC unless a backup is performed and there is an hourly charge to wait for it B) Tell them that in order to do this part of the service it must be taken to the shop and they'll be billed at a lower rate or C) they sign a waiver that says that they understand the risks and they elect not to have their data backed up on or offsite.

Now, I'm not asking for legal advice because this isn't really the place for this, but let's say customer elects option C) I'm going to guess this really isn't the best legal option anyway? (they can still sue me for data loss) and my waiver is useless to me; not so much useless to the customer.

Anybody have experience in dealing with preventing unrecoverable data due to shop servicing? And generally speaking not every PC onsite or in the shop require being backed up, a customer wanted to make using her browser easier with direct links to her webpages that she frequented and so there was no need to do any data backup.

Also, if I'm dealing with customers who have data that are linked to tangible value; I don't think I'd think twice about giving them option C) and before I'd touch the brains of the PC that PC is going to get a backup whether they like it or not and that unfortunately could also be a problem because that's an expense to their business so I don't know if that's even reasonable. Of course I'd use drivesavers for these customers who have failing hard drives because the valuable data risk would be too great.

 

[[j-pr0]]

I always, always create a System Restore Point. You'd have to do a lot of messing up to crash the machine and it not be able to boot from the System Repair Disc to restore a System Restore Point.

 

[mynetdude]

I always, always create a System Restore Point. You'd have to do a lot of messing up to crash the machine and it not be able to boot from the System Repair Disc to restore a System Restore Point.

Perhaps, I'm not a fan of system restore as I've seen it mess up royally (not to the point you can't boot, but in terms of data loss).

Most people leave this alone (system restore); I seem to be the only one who turns them off

a disk image will protect me better than a system restore point anyway (at least I'd like to think so) because what if for some strange reason the hard drive fails to spin up after I've worked on it? (ESD wrist bands are great).

I'm thinking more of worst case scenario, not so much as in; I removed a program that shouldn't have been removed, restore point might fix that.

I have a customer that tells me that half of his movies are gone and all I did was run ccleaner and MBAM; So, I don't really know why or how or if he is fibbing I'm not saying its impossible or unlikely but just how do you lose that many movies? (he had 300 movies or so).

 

[[j-pr0]]

a disk image will protect me better than a system restore point anyway (at least I'd like to think so) because what if for some strange reason the hard drive fails to spin up after I've worked on it? (ESD wrist bands are great).

.

Haha so true.

I understand what you mean though. Not sure how to prove something like a customer having all those movies missing unless you did a backup like you were saying. Your whole plan of A), B), and C) options sounded good. Do you have Errors and Omissions Insurance in case of losing customer's data? If they signed somethings like option C), I don't see how they could sue you though. I've never thought of this problem before, but thanks for bringing the topic up. A point to ponder.

 

[mynetdude]

Haha so true.

I understand what you mean though. Not sure how to prove something like a customer having all those movies missing unless you did a backup like you were saying. Your whole plan of A), B), and C) options sounded good. Do you have Errors and Omissions Insurance in case of losing customer's data? If they signed somethings like option C), I don't see how they could sue you though. I've never thought of this problem before, but thanks for bringing the topic up. A point to ponder.

That's in the works, I intend to get that insurance. That still doesn't help resolve the issue of whether or not I should backup the customer's PC onsite its something I HAVE to charge for since I am at their place of business or residence.

I should talk to an E&O (errors & omissions) insurance underwriter and ask them whether option C) as I mentioned in my OP is even a worthy consideration. and FWIW, I'm not sure how someone can place value on movies they've downloaded (if it's pirated that's one thing, if they bought it, that's another).

I have looked at E&O insurance because I know its something I'm going to need. I've been fully cooperative with the customer, and he understands so he isn't going to sue me but still.

Maybe I'm just overthinking but I'm just curious what others have done to prevent further data loss when working onsite; this is easily said than done at the shop though and I haven't heard of PC repair shops doing data backups onsite unless the customer requests it?

Also, my goal isn't so much being able to prove anything, if I'm proactive about preventative measures, there won't be any need to prove anything; my concern data loss prevention and cost to the customer. If it takes all but 5-15 minutes I might not wink and charge them for that time; but if it takes me 20-30-40 minutes I'm gonna wink unless the process goes so quick I don't realize it I'm going to be kind and not charge them as much.

I also educate people about storing their files on a backup drive either that's in the PC or attached to the PC via USB or whatever this way any work I do may not be as critical and any problems can be easily fixed without fear of data loss and any errors are going to be fixed on my dime not theirs.

 

[ithanz]

Perhaps you could just copy the documents and files etc on an external drive it would be quicker then doing a full backup? so all personal data is not lost. Then create a restore point as per usual.

 

[Frosty is a Snowman]

if somebody says they had files on a computer, such as movies, and they claim that you deleted them.
Then just run data recovery software on the computer.
This will find if the files existed in the first place, and if they can be recovered.

I would advise looking at software like R-Studio, EaseUS etc. etc. as a good tool to have, as it can help you recover important files for customers.
This can be a good tool to have if you have made a mistake, or even if they have messed up and bring the computer to you to have files recovered.
While this is not a perfect system, I have recovered a lot of person files, and some for customers\staff at work.

Plus if you are working on customers computers that you suspect has illegal files on them it, you should be reporting it to the authorities.
Because if you have computers in your possession, that have illegal content, then you are breaking the law as well, and if caught, it could ruin your business.


I would say with regards to the back-up process, this has to be either done in one of two ways.
You either stand your ground and state from the start that all customers drives will be backed up as part of the process, and that you state what the charge is.
Or you do as most people do and make a judgement call on which jobs require a back up and which ones do not.


ps. I hate system restore, and turn it off all the time.
For me it does not work, and has caused more problems than it has fixed.

 

[mynetdude]

if somebody says they had files on a computer, such as movies, and they claim that you deleted them.
Then just run data recovery software on the computer.
This will find if the files existed in the first place, and if they can be recovered.

I've heard that before, I'm not worried about that I just don't want to make the mistake of this again if I can help it. Computer data is much more volatile than paper unless you light a match to that paper.

I would advise looking at software like R-Studio, EaseUS etc. etc. as a good tool to have, as it can help you recover important files for customers.
This can be a good tool to have if you have made a mistake, or even if they have messed up and bring the computer to you to have files recovered.
While this is not a perfect system, I have recovered a lot of person files, and some for customers\staff at work.

Good suggestions, thank you; I have macrium reflect for doing whole drive and whole partition backups and I also believe I can do file level backups as well so I may consider adding those tools you suggested to my "toolbox"

Plus if you are working on customers computers that you suspect has illegal files on them it, you should be reporting it to the authorities.
Because if you have computers in your possession, that have illegal content, then you are breaking the law as well, and if caught, it could ruin your business.

Well there are a number of things I need to look into; not sure how but precisely yes I agree if I discover child pornography or say grisly pictures of a murder (ok I'm imagining things, but you'd be surprised WHAT people will keep on their PCs). Those are more obvious, but what about things that might be illegal and not so obvious and I happen to overlook and not report? (such as bank fraud, or stalking, etc those aren't always as obvious

I would say with regards to the back-up process, this has to be either done in one of two ways.
You either stand your ground and state from the start that all customers drives will be backed up as part of the process, and that you state what the charge is.
Or you do as most people do and make a judgement call on which jobs require a back up and which ones do not.

I think this is pretty much the general direction I am going, I just don't want to nickel and dime people for everything I have to do.

I like the idea of being able to say that if I can't find the source of the problem or have no solution to the problem at hand then their first hour is free but they can opt to have me continue beyond the first hour but otherwise its free and thus doing a backup couldn't possibly free whether they wanted it or not HOWEVER the average PC user generally puts all their stuff in one of the three to six areas of their personal folder such as: music, videos, pictures, documents, downloads unlike myself I don't put anything there so maybe I will charge $15 to do a backup but I don't want it to take 3 hours to do either so let me look at those tools and maybe I will have a better idea of what I might do.

ps. I hate system restore, and turn it off all the time.
For me it does not work, and has caused more problems than it has fixed.

its about time someone agrees with me

 

[Spanner]

In the UK it's called Professional indemnity insurance. Whether it's A.B or C you need to get covered. BTW i also kill system restore on friend's and family's computer's and insist on a back up partition for files they would like to keep..Problem is that a lot user's are lazy and don't listen to good advice..you can only lead a horse to water..it's what keeps me in work.. Don't tell them about Ubuntu or we're screwed.

 

[mynetdude]

In the UK it's called Professional indemnity insurance. Whether it's A.B or C you need to get covered. BTW i also kill system restore on friend's and family's computer's and insist on a back up partition for files they would like to keep..Problem is that a lot user's are lazy and don't listen to good advice..you can only lead a horse to water..it's what keeps me in work.. Don't tell them about Ubuntu or we're screwed.

I still tell them about ubuntu; they hate it anyway but you are absolutely right about everything you've said.

I've quit doing business as a "job" I guess you could say; I do it strictly as a hobby I still fix people's PC as if I were getting paid but do it free now (I don't go advertising it though; but if they tell their friends and family whatever I don't mind) I do let them pay me if they want to it still costs me a couple dollars to accept their checks/credit cards. And FWIW I still buy the equipment I need to do the work well (whether that's software or hardware) I have enough income to support it but now I need to figure out how to get insurance as a hobbyist not as a business I won't even make more than $100 cash in a year anyway but my income can support paying for the insurance I'll barely pay for but it would be good to have it just in case (not for family anyway, but yeah).

But I do it on my own time; I've got lots of things I enjoy doing fixing PCs is just one of them.