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Old 05-30-2005, 08:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Yes it does depend on the programs...But the 1.5 rule still does not work. All you did was create instances where the 1.5 rule might work in the counterexamples I gave. Ok, good for you, but you haven't proven anything. The fact is it is portrayed as a "rule" which it cannot be. There are many other factors to consider like you say. So if you agree that is depends on what you want to run then why would you agree with a rule that doesn't take that into account in the least bit?

Let's say I have 4 gigs of RAM (which is possible on current systems) and NO I AM NOT IN THE FUTURE. Let's say I have 4 gigs of RAM because I like to run backround apps and doom 3 and I don't like to overflow into the page file much because it is slower. If this is the case and I have 4 gigs of ram then most of the memory need can be taken up by the ram and I have little need for much of a page file. So I can make it say 100 or 200 megs or so. I DO NOT need to make it 6 GIGS.
On the other side let's say I gots me 256mb of ram. I had a computer with this and I gamed on it. Again in this situation the 1.5 rule does not work. Having a 1.5 times page file when I try to play games on it I constantly get critical errors because I run out of virtual memory and while running the game windows kept saying "virtual memory too low, windows is increasing your virtual memory". So again the 1.5 rule has failed as it did not leave me with enough memory to run my game. And yes you can play games with 256mb memory. Don't tell me otherwise.

So thanks for explaining all the basics there that I already knew furtive but you didn't make any points for the 1.5 rule.
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Old 05-30-2005, 10:35 PM   #22 (permalink)
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mmm.. well, ok, if you can (and want) to buy 4 gig RAM, no one is stopping you... i'll back off before this turn nasty again, i'm just saying, if you insist on playing DOOM 3 on 128 mb of memory, i agree of course you can, but you won't enjoy it :P

ahh, but any rule has exceptions, i just think 1.5 times is a good place to start for *most* users anyhow.. such as the current mid range computers for typical users, those with 512 mb of RAM and such.. I have used the 1.5 rule for about 8 years without a hitch.. though in terms of computer hardware i usually keep at the middle of the pack.. in the two examples, the 128 mb computer i still think 1.5 is good enough.. as i still don't think you can play any new games on it.. well, not any that you can enjoy smoothly, no matter how large the page file may be, the harddrive is just too slow.. but the 4 gig example, i agree with you that you can have less than 1.5 times.. hell, you can have no page file and running smoothly... However, if you have the money to get that much RAM, you wouldn't want anyone to advice you anymore eh?

an interesting note, if your computer is slow when you have 1.5 times of your RAM as page file.. don't you think it's high time for that person to upgrade? the computer has dumped 150% of it's RAM onto the harddrive, and that's about where you would get a significant improvement in preformance by doubling your RAM...

of course i know you can get 4 gig of RAM.. i'm just saying you won't be able to buy a consumer computer just yet with 4 gig (the best gaming rig i've seen so far is 2 gig).. so yah, if you got a 4 gig RAM, well, your wayy ahead of us and living in the future (for everyone that is )

btw, let's get back on the topic of this guy's question (the thread starter)
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Old 05-30-2005, 10:46 PM   #23 (permalink)
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http://www.techist.com/showthread.php?threadid=56137
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Old 05-30-2005, 11:00 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Sadly since it seems this tread has been kind of hijacked, I'm going to comment.

As for the post of this, it's very simple to keep you system running fine for several years. I have 2 in2k machines that have not been rebuilt for 4 years now, and are going strong. XP is no different. It's all in maintenance. The only thing I would suggest to you is double the amount of ram you are looking to use.

That aside, onto the disk-paging thing....
I'm really sorry to say this, but grow up you idiots! stops the childish arguing and take it off line if you mush continue. The facts are this...
Disk paging is something from the dark ages of computing. It's truly not something that is needed anymore. The use was put to rest with the Win2k os, and has been put even further to bed with XP. If you have 1gb of ram, then you don't need a page file anymore. no matter what you are doing. At that point, paging is more of a tax on your system than bonus. Even when doing Video renderings and editing, paging does nothing for you after 1gb of ram.
Now that being said, when running on a less amount of memory, you will find that paging does help, but it's not all it's cracked up to be. For starters, the page file is rewrote every time you reboot the machine. So all of the page file cleaners are a joke.
Then you have size. Any page file that needs to be larger than 1 gb, you need more ram. The 1.5 rule is a good "rule of thumb" for it cause it's about what you need for machines running <1gb. That simple. So you have 512, then you need 768 for a page file. That is all. No more or less. If you are trying to use virtual memory in place of ram, you will not like the final out come. Using a page file increases the chance that you will eventually cause trouble for your hard disk. I'm not saying all the time, but in the end, using a page file that is too large (i.e. >1gb will force your drive to read and write more than is needed and in the end put more strain on the overall drive performance.

My 2 cents...

Good luck
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Old 05-30-2005, 11:12 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Old 05-30-2005, 11:30 PM   #26 (permalink)
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this thread turned into quite an arguement over pagefile, if xp isnt complaining then it doesnt matter what its set to your games and apps will run the same, what it really comes to is how a programmer uses his code to request how much will be needed even if it never uses it, it will want the same amount and the opinion about how pagefile is old is wrong cuz no matter how much ram you have you will need a pagefile for many apps

i can run all the latest games with 256 mb of kingston hyper x ram, i think namebrand does matter cuz if i used 256 of PNY namebrand then i have problems, windows will automatically adjust its needs to the amount of ram you have, the less you have the more pagefile you may need and vise versa, overall i noticed it doesnt seem to matter beyond 512 mb of quality ram

get a pagefile monitor, it will show you what its max and min is and you can set it accordingly so you dont waste hard drive space, its funny eveyones basing opinons on certain sites when all of them recommend differently, a pagefile monitor will answer it for your particular system
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Old 05-30-2005, 11:36 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Shaddup about page file

And to keep your PC clean

-Hardware Firewall
-No porn or cracked programs
-Use Firefox, not IE.
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Old 05-31-2005, 12:43 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ-CHRIS
[B]-No porn[
B]
Well now there's even no point of having a computer...lol

But saying the page file is old and isn't needed anymore is not true. You should never set to not have a page file because windows is designed to operate with a page file. And EricB showed the exact guide I was referring to. I think everything in that guide about the page file is correct. I think the "2 gigabyte" rule is more accurate than the 1.5x rule.

oh and to add to the on-topic part of the thread, use ccleaner often to keep your registry spiffy!
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Old 05-31-2005, 03:14 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by furtivefelon
erm.. you still didn't say why exactly you want to reinstall windows.. if you don't want to reinstall for two years.. well, you don't have to reinstall for two years.. it's that simple if you have virus on your computer.. get a firewall, if you have little space, try to keep your computer organized, if your computer is slow, upgrade, defrag, switch to linux.. so tell me, why do you need to reinstall?
I meant, I'm going to do a clean XP Installation next month and I want to keep XP installed without having problems for 2 years.
I need to install XP again because it was installed at the end of 2002. I was 13 in 2002 so you could imagine that I did not had the knowledge to maintain my PC, I didn't knew a lot about PC's, and I didn't maintain XP so you could imagine that it's so slowwwwww! Also, another reason is, that I won't be home a lot for 2 years and my parents will use my pc every day, i also don't think my pc would be able to run another 2 years without a new installation (so it would be like working on XP for 4 years, with a lot of installed/uninstalled software, Windows Updates, SP1 and SP2, and probably in the future SP3 on 1 XP install.)


About the swapfile,
I have chosen for 512-512 MB, because it's going to be used to surf on the Internet, to chat, read/write emails, to read/write documents in Word. The RAM Usage also wouldn't probably be more than 512 MB.

edit:
I also have a NAT router with a firewall, which is quite good configured.
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Old 05-31-2005, 08:04 AM   #30 (permalink)
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alright, in my experience, one of the best thing you could do is to keep up on the frequent update (i assume you have a high speed internet?).. then switch out of IE, as IE is too close to the operating system, it it's compromised, your system is compromised (and we all like to think IE is insecure, so let's think that ).. ah, i personally perfer Opera over firefox, but that would be your choice.. anyhow, don't try to install too many softwares.. i only install those i use at least once every 2 days.. with the exception of course of a good firewall.. many software on windows is subpar in terms of it's design, especially shareware. I discovered alot of software that doesn't uninstall cleanly, and thus clutters up your computer.. i didn't look through your list before, but by the length i have to scroll, i'd say at least cut down on half of the softwares.. as not many people can use that much software once in every two days install as it is needed.. if those are sys admin softwares, choose the best one and ditch others, as some will cause conflict that's just my two cents in keeping system perform
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