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Old 09-03-2008, 08:28 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

Oh I agree on upgrades. The performance difference isn't enough to compel someone who already has an AM2 system to go Blue. In that case they should get a phenom, it saves you a lot of cash. However I contest your Super PI notion. Intel chips are faster in general not just at one benchmark.


I doubt how much a die shrink can change things. Die shrinks make the cost go down, they also allow you to either have a lower TDP for the same performance for have the same TDP for higher performance. Lets be honest Phenoms don't scale that well, so I think AMD will get more bang for their buck per se' if they make them more energy efficient.
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Old 09-03-2008, 08:36 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt5 View Post
Upgradeabilty when you go am2+ coupled with the fact that the phenom is not a bad cpu.

The 45nm phenom code named Deneb is expected to have quite a nice boost. If the only game you play is superpi, then OK go Intel.
Phenoms being a good cpu is an opinion, Phenoms being the slowest quads is a fact. Even if deneb has "quite a nice boost" it still may be slower than Yorkfield and it will almost certainly have a higher TDP.
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Old 09-03-2008, 09:22 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

Well TDP doesn't always mean Power Consumption though, but yes you are right though, we already know that 1 will be 125w and the rest will be 95w most likely, but its still less than a QX9770, but we don't know for sure who consumes more
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:06 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

Quote:
Originally Posted by zmatt View Post
This has nothing to do with Intel or AMD, it has everything to do with getting the best bang for buck. Right now AMD can't compete in the cpu category
Actually, they can.
Even 98% of B2 chips (the early, TLB-bugged chips) can clock past 3GHZ with a descent SB750 board
B3 chips (especially the 9850/9950) overclock even better, and with socket AM2+ you get upgradability that you don't get on s775

the Deneb chips will release at 3GHZ stock and clock very well (even on SB600 - though I'd still go for SB750), as well as getting a boost in IPC and a significantly better performance per watt.

And it's not true that Phenom's are universally slower than C2Q's
In fact, they usually scale better when you increase frequency, and >3GHZ you'll often see them winning in games against similarly clocked C2Q's (even Yorksfield)

The fact is that Phenoms, despite the bad reputation they have, are fast and competitive processors, even against C2Q's.

I think AM2/AM2+/AM3 motherboards are also ahead of s775 motherboards. If you spent the same amount of money on an AM2+ board that you did on a s775 board, the AM2+ board will nearly always be better.

And another reason to buy AMD is that, apart from the fact that they make fast, capable processors, they're pretty much the only reason people are not paying $500 for Pentium 4's today. And the value of CPU's will never keep increasing at the rate they do without the competition.
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:13 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

Except Phenoms can't overclock without very aggressive cooling.

Let me put it another way. My e7200 is at 3.8ghz on stock cooling and I bet it outperforms any phenom on air.

Hearsay and phase change cooling doesn't count when we are comparing realistic performance.
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:23 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

Quote:
Originally Posted by zmatt View Post
Except Phenoms can't overclock without very aggressive cooling.
I don't think you've been following Phenom's as closely as I have.
They are overclocking quite well with SB750 boards, B3 chips regularly getting ~3.4-3.5
And then Deneb is only going to be better. 4GHZ has been done on stock cooling, on an ES chip.
Deneb will be releasing at 3GHZ
Quote:
Let me put it another way. My e7200
is a 45nm dual core
45nm C2Q's don't overclock as well, and they also cost more than Phenom's do. Not to mention, the boards aswell.
And they're more dependent on having higher clocking memory (increasing FSB) rather than using a multiplier like Phenom's do.
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:30 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

Funny, my motherboard has the world record for the highest fsb. Also, C2Qs are a great deal faster then Phenoms. Everyone on the forums except for you has accepted this for better or for worse. naga, drizzit, everyone who would normally be considered a fanboy. And you can't tell me AMD's overclock better than Inte'ls. I want to see proof that they do 4ghz on stock cooling. There must be an article form some reputable site that says this.
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Old 09-03-2008, 10:52 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

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Originally Posted by zmatt View Post
Funny, my motherboard has the world record for the highest fsb.
How much did it and the RAM cost?
also, FSB ovetrclocking is not the only kind of overclocking in existence.
Phenom's use multipliers heavily in overclocking. And their Hypertransport bus is already significantly faster than the FSB, even if it isn't clocked as high.
Quote:
Also, C2Qs are a great deal faster then Phenoms.
No, they're really not.
Quote:
Everyone on the forums except for you has accepted this for better or for worse.
Begging the question.
Quote:
naga, drizzit, everyone who would normally be considered a fanboy. And you can't tell me AMD's overclock better than Inte'ls.
They don't. But that's a far stretch from C2Q's being significantly better, which they aren't.
Quote:
I want to see proof that they do 4ghz on stock cooling. There must be an article form some reputable site that says this.
4ghz deneb - Google Search


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Old 09-03-2008, 10:57 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

And what cooling solution does that use? i don't see temps or any information about that. In fact the other bit was just 3.4ghz and that's a long way away from 4ghz. So essentially you gave me a cpu-z screen shot with no other information. Its hard for me to believe that.
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Old 09-03-2008, 11:02 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

Quote:
Originally Posted by zmatt View Post
And what cooling solution does that use? i don't see temps or any information about that.
Stock.
Quote:
In fact the other bit was just 3.4ghz and that's a long way away from 4ghz.
What other bit? and no, it's not that far.
Quote:
So essentially you gave me a cpu-z screen shot with no other information. Its hard for me to believe that.
Not when you've had a good look at what SB750 is doing for Phenom's, and add the fact that Phenom wasn't really designed for 65nm
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