Asus GeForce GTX580 specs are leaked, and a video!

[Puddle Jumper]

^In some tests it equals or tops the 5970. So while technically true that on average it 'loses' to the 5970, it's hardly by much. If the ATI fanboys were dismissing 16% increases as 'tiny' or 'negligible' when the 480 first came out compared to the 5870, I think the Nvidia fanboys can do the same for the 580/5970 considering the performance gap between them is much less than 16%

The difference is relevant is due to how old the HD 5970 is. You could have bought one last year for close to the price of the GTX 580 now and you would still have a slightly faster card.

The reason everyone complained about the GTX 480 is the 16% improvement vs the 5870 is that performance difference came with a substantial increase in power consumption from a card released 6 months later. If nvidia had avoided either of those two drawbacks it would have been a much more successful card.

 

[PP Mguire]

Yea not to mention the fact that its 2 GPUs vs 1

Also, people tend to forget that ATI got so many buys because of the "DX11 chip" fad and Nvidia missed out on it. Not to mention ATI was the only one with new cards out through the holidays (i know, i got 2 and had 4 bad ones). I personally think Nvidia will miss out again though because 6850 and 6870 will rein supreme for Christmas over a 500 dollar moniker. Honestly though, Nvidia doesnt care. They still hold the GPU crown and i think thats all they care about.

And the gen to gen argument can be said back and forth. It took 4 gens for ATI to top Nvidia but only because Nvidia was cocky and came out 6 months late. GT200 didnt hold up against 5000 like they thought it would. Ive had a card from each gen (both camps) and Nvidia has had the upper hand each time.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

Yea not to mention the fact that its 2 GPUs vs 1

Also, people tend to forget that ATI got so many buys because of the "DX11 chip" fad and Nvidia missed out on it. Not to mention ATI was the only one with new cards out through the holidays (i know, i got 2 and had 4 bad ones). I personally think Nvidia will miss out again though because 6850 and 6870 will rein supreme for Christmas over a 500 dollar moniker. Honestly though, Nvidia doesnt care. They still hold the GPU crown and i think thats all they care about.

Dual gpu's are fair game in that price range imo.

There really isn't any benefit in wondering how things might have turned out. Heck if Intel had been the ones to buy ATI back in the day they would have driven nvidia to the verge of bankruptcy years ago.

 

[PP Mguire]

Dual gpu's are fair game in that price range imo.

There really isn't any benefit in wondering how things might have turned out. Heck if Intel had been the ones to buy ATI back in the day they would have driven nvidia to the verge of bankruptcy years ago.

Not really considering were talking performance here and not price. In that case, the single still trumps the dual in some cases and its back and forth from there.

And again, not really. Nvidia would stop twiddling their thumbs and actually work for once.

Sure smells like TPU in here.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

And again, not really. Nvidia would stop twiddling their thumbs and actually work for once.

Against a Intel+ATI combo it wouldn't matter. Nvidia may be as good at designing cards as ATI but their Achilles heel is manufacturing, they are stuck with whatever TSMC gives them. On the other hand manufacturing is Intel's biggest advantage, they have the best fabs in the world and don't have to share them with anyone else.

lol, now I'm the one speculating about what might have been.

 

[Apokalipse]

^In some tests it equals or tops the 5970. So while technically true that on average it 'loses' to the 5970, it's hardly by much. If the ATI fanboys were dismissing 16% increases as 'tiny' or 'negligible' when the 480 first came out compared to the 5870, I think the Nvidia fanboys can do the same for the 580/5970 considering the performance gap between them is much less than 16%

The issue is not purely performance.
It's a combination of performance, price, power consumption and availability (with the 5000 series being available very early).

The 480 had better performance than a 5870 at the cost of ~100W higher power consumption and more money, as well as not being available for a while.

In the case of the 5970 and GTX 580, the 5970 has better performance, lower cost and equal power consumption.

Yea not to mention the fact that its 2 GPUs vs 1

Usually a card with two GPU's costs more and has higher power consumption, which are the reasons for a comparision being unfair or bad - but that's not the case with the 5970 vs a GTX 580.

The GTX 460 I think is the best card Nvidia has ATM when considering power consumption and price.
It's competitive against the 6870 and 6850 - the 6870 is slightly faster and costs slightly more. So price:performance is quite close.

I'm not really sure why ATI decided to use the 6870 name for their mid-range card though.

Nvidia are struggling right now in terms of die area efficiency. The GF104 is a step forward, but since ATI moved from a 5D to 4D shader design for Cayman and Barts they've moved the goalposts further. Cayman XT appears to be faster than a GTX 580 while at the same time being smaller.
Moving from 5D to 4D shaders now means that each shader cluster can be saturated easier given the same workloads - i.e fewer shaders in each cluster are being left unused (though I'm not sure why they did 5D in the first place).
Hence how the 6870 has close to 5870 performance with 1120 shaders vs 1600

 

[PP Mguire]

The issue is not purely performance.
It's a combination of performance, price, power consumption and availability (with the 5000 series being available very early).

The 480 had better performance than a 5870 at the cost of ~100W higher power consumption and more money, as well as not being available for a while.

In the case of the 5970 and GTX 580, the 5970 has better performance, lower cost and equal power consumption.

Usually a card with two GPU's costs more and has higher power consumption, which are the reasons for a comparision being unfair or bad - but that's not the case with the 5970 vs a GTX 580.

The GTX 460 I think is the best card Nvidia has ATM when considering power consumption and price.
It's competitive against the 6870 and 6850 - the 6870 is slightly faster and costs slightly more. So price:performance is quite close.

I'm not really sure why ATI decided to use the 6870 name for their mid-range card though.

Nvidia are struggling right now in terms of die area efficiency. The GF104 is a step forward, but since ATI moved from a 5D to 4D shader design for Cayman and Barts they've moved the goalposts further. Cayman XT appears to be faster than a GTX 580 while at the same time being smaller.
Moving from 5D to 4D shaders now means that each shader cluster can be saturated easier given the same workloads - i.e fewer shaders in each cluster are being left unused (though I'm not sure why they did 5D in the first place).
Hence how the 6870 has close to 5870 performance with 1120 shaders vs 1600

The 5970 vs 580 was purely performance compared im guessing between those 2. In this case it IS unfair that its 2 GPUs vs 1 but in this case the 580 is either on its heels or winning in a back to back race. If it was 2 580s on a single board ATI people would be screaming oh its not fair the 580 is from another gen.

I dont see how you could say the Carman XT appears to be faster when its not out....unless you know something we dont? I understand the shader thing, but this particular statement caught my eye.

 

[Apokalipse]

The 5970 vs 580 was purely performance compared im guessing between those 2. In this case it IS unfair that its 2 GPUs vs 1 but in this case the 580 is either on its heels or winning in a back to back race.

In anandtech's review the 5970 won most of the time, though slipped a few times at 2560x1600.

It's typically not fair to compare a card that has a higher cost, which is what usually occurs with two GPU's on a single card.
If the 580 was the cheaper card, and used less power, it would be an unfair comparision. But in this case the 5970 is actually cheaper, and uses the same amount of power.

If it was 2 580s on a single board ATI people would be screaming oh its not fair the 580 is from another gen.

I think an argument could be made concerning availability, rather than the generation itself.

It would be valid to compare a newer card to an older card if they are in the same price ranges and both available.
Note that that is not an argument against buying from brand X because their old card isn't as good as brand Y's newer card. It's an argument against buying the old card, with brand not being the relevant factor.
It could easily be that brand X has or is about to release a new card, which you could compare to brand Y's new card - that argument depends on availability, and how much the time it takes to release is worth to you.

In the case of the 5970 vs the GTX 580, it's the 580 which is the more expensive card. So you'd want it to be the faster card.
Except it isn't faster. So I don't really understand why it's the more expensive card.

I dont see how you could say the Carman XT appears to be faster when its not out....unless you know something we dont? I understand the shader thing, but this particular statement caught my eye.

There have been benchmarks with the 6970 showing it ahead of the GTX 580. I couldn't tell you if they're valid though.

 

[PP Mguire]

They arent valid considering the fact that the card isnt out yet. If your talking about ATI PR then....yea im sure i dont need to finish.

As for the 580, you completely missed what i meant. But in the epic battle of ATI vs Nvidia i can say that i dont even feel like continuing it lol. People buy what they wanna buy regardless.

 

[Apokalipse]

They arent valid considering the fact that the card isnt out yet.

The card exists. It just isn't in sufficient numbers to sell yet. It'll be about a couple of weeks.
Only question is whether anybody without an NDA has gotten their hands on one, or even whether somebody has broken their NDA.

If your talking about ATI PR then....yea im sure i dont need to finish.

Not from ATI. Or if it is, it's not anything official.