ATI in NVIDIA optimised games? HELP?
- Thread starter Alive.777
- Start date
- Status
Puddle Jumper
Mod Emeritus
- Messages
- 4,292
Yeah, during the whole Batman AA issue AMD stated that they don't artificially disable features on their competitors cards.
Puddle Jumper
Mod Emeritus
- Messages
- 4,292
ATI refuses to develop any special features for their customers. They have started updating their drivers a little more regularly though so that's a plus
They really haven't needed to develop any special features lately since nvidia has been so far behind, DX10.1 and DX11 were both ATI exclusives for quite a while.
Ati has been releasing monthly driver updates for years now and you can't get much more regular than that.
OP
OP
Alive.777
In Runtime
- Messages
- 201
- Location
- QLD, Australia
Well, iam pretty sure iam going to go with the gtx 480 as it outperformes the HD5870 in nearly all games and it has all the features i would ever want. Inno3D GeForce GTX 480 1536MB [IV-GTX480-1536MD5] - $595.00 : PC Case Gear = $595.00 AUD. it has CUBA, DX11, PHYSX, 3D VISION COMPATIBLE, 3D SURROUND. ect. All the HD5870 has is DX11, UNSTABLE DRIVERS, and EYEFINITY.
oh and, i cant make nvidia stop disabling their compeditors options. that is not in my controle, i just want to see the game with its full eyecandy and not worrie about not having some graphical feature available. if that means i have to go with nvidia, then so be it.
oh and, i cant make nvidia stop disabling their compeditors options. that is not in my controle, i just want to see the game with its full eyecandy and not worrie about not having some graphical feature available. if that means i have to go with nvidia, then so be it.
DX10.1 and DX11 weren't special features, they were just standards they implemented. DX10.1 was mostly useless and they were exclusive for DX11 before any / or very few DX11 games were available, so those points don't really matter.
ATi has been releasing monthly driver updates, on and off, for years now. Their pretty regular when they release a new product but support is usually short lived.
ATi has been releasing monthly driver updates, on and off, for years now. Their pretty regular when they release a new product but support is usually short lived.
Puddle Jumper
Mod Emeritus
- Messages
- 4,292
The GTX 480 also uses as much power as the much faster HD 5970 which completely destroys it.
CUDA isn't much of a marketing point since ATI, Nvidia and Intel all support OpenCL which is it's hardware agnostic competitor. Nvida might have had a chance at pushing it back when they had a majority of the dedicated gpu market but now that it's split nearly 50/50 between them and ATI only a idiot would use CUDA over OpenCL.
A single GTX 480 will not be able to deliver playable framerates in modern games using 3DVision. You are also stuck using mediocre TN Panel monitors that cost nearly as much as superior IPS displays. 3D surround will have a even bigger performance penalty and requires 2 cards to function while eyefinity only needs one.
Say what you will about ATI drivers but at least they have never released drivers that actually destroyed cards like nvidia's did. Besides ATI's drivers issues are beyond overblown and usually a result of a problem between the keyboard and the chair. Personally the drivers on my HD 4850 are noticeably better than the ones for the 8800GS it replaced.
Yes DX10.1 and DX11 were standards they implemented however ATI did implement them long before nvidia. In the case of DX10.1 ATI added support for it two years before nvidia did and we all know how DX11 turned out. Perhaps nvidia should work on supporting standards instead of trying to make their own.
zmatt
The Bulldog
- Messages
- 4,660
- Location
- In an empty Ramen packet
I've pretty much given up here but what they hey I'm in the mood to post.
ATI's drivers are not unstable. The issue isn't with the drivers, this thing is a bigger issue with Window's WDM driver model in general. The same thing happens to nvidia cards and statistically it happens more often with them for some reason. My work laptop has Nvidia 335M graphics and it has that very problem with the .dll not responding. No known fix. you deal with it. My desktop suffers form it occasionally. Again you deal with it.
I dunno why you are listing eyefinity as a bad thing. It;s a great thing if you have a bunch of monitors you aren't using. It's spelled CUDA btw, and you will most likely never use it. I have actually used it in an academic research environment and let me be the first to say it's crap. ATI's environment isn't great either and GPGPU is far from being as mature as everyone wants you to think. Right now it's where Java was in the 90's. ATI's newest cards have DX11, and had them first. Physx is about as useful as Cuda, the only game where it is noticeable is mirror's edge and I don't think anyone plays that anymore. And 3d visuals has everything to do with the game and monitor compatibility first and foremost. If you don't have that and that's a massive earth crushing if then it's useless.
The only points that matter with a video card, and I will say this to the end of days, are price, performance, heat reliability, and price/performance. The gimmicks are just that. I've been doing this for a decade now and there has always been gimmicks, very few of them ever become legit. SLI/Crossfire was one of the lucky ones. And it took 3 generations to mature to being relevant to most people.
The GTX480 is very hot and very heavy on power usage. The GTX480 is running at 94 degrees Celsius under load, that's over 200 degrees Fahrenheit! You could almost boil water on this thing. It also eats 300 watts under load. that's a big chunk of your power budget. I sure hope you have a 600+ watt psu handy. It's also as loud as 2 GTX285s, Headphones required. It's also worth noting that AMD refreshes their line every 6 months with a die shrink and clock speed increase. That isn't too far away at this point. They may very well release a faster card. And the ATI cards are cheaper. The GTX480 is on average 25-30% more expensive (in America) than the HD5870. It's only 10-15% faster. You should take all of this into account.
ATI's drivers are not unstable. The issue isn't with the drivers, this thing is a bigger issue with Window's WDM driver model in general. The same thing happens to nvidia cards and statistically it happens more often with them for some reason. My work laptop has Nvidia 335M graphics and it has that very problem with the .dll not responding. No known fix. you deal with it. My desktop suffers form it occasionally. Again you deal with it.
I dunno why you are listing eyefinity as a bad thing. It;s a great thing if you have a bunch of monitors you aren't using. It's spelled CUDA btw, and you will most likely never use it. I have actually used it in an academic research environment and let me be the first to say it's crap. ATI's environment isn't great either and GPGPU is far from being as mature as everyone wants you to think. Right now it's where Java was in the 90's. ATI's newest cards have DX11, and had them first. Physx is about as useful as Cuda, the only game where it is noticeable is mirror's edge and I don't think anyone plays that anymore. And 3d visuals has everything to do with the game and monitor compatibility first and foremost. If you don't have that and that's a massive earth crushing if then it's useless.
The only points that matter with a video card, and I will say this to the end of days, are price, performance, heat reliability, and price/performance. The gimmicks are just that. I've been doing this for a decade now and there has always been gimmicks, very few of them ever become legit. SLI/Crossfire was one of the lucky ones. And it took 3 generations to mature to being relevant to most people.
The GTX480 is very hot and very heavy on power usage. The GTX480 is running at 94 degrees Celsius under load, that's over 200 degrees Fahrenheit! You could almost boil water on this thing. It also eats 300 watts under load. that's a big chunk of your power budget. I sure hope you have a 600+ watt psu handy. It's also as loud as 2 GTX285s, Headphones required. It's also worth noting that AMD refreshes their line every 6 months with a die shrink and clock speed increase. That isn't too far away at this point. They may very well release a faster card. And the ATI cards are cheaper. The GTX480 is on average 25-30% more expensive (in America) than the HD5870. It's only 10-15% faster. You should take all of this into account.
OP
OP
Alive.777
In Runtime
- Messages
- 201
- Location
- QLD, Australia
Ok, first off, iam not listing Eyefinity as a bad thing, infact, it was what attracted me to ATI in the first place, that and DX11. secondly, CUBA is used in Just Cause 2, and will be used extensivly in Crysis 2. NVIDIA does'nt invent great technology for nothing. Thirdly, it does'nt matter which company had DX11 first, makes no difference. fourthly, physics is noticable in Battlefield: Bad Company2, Batman: Dark Asylm, Mirrors Edge, Just Cause 2, Metro 2033, Empire: Total War, will be in Crysis 2, and in Nepolian: Total War. What you said there is a complete understatment. fithly, The heat and power issue is NOT an issue with me. The card is designed to run at those temps. It is rated to like 105 degrees celcuis so 94 degrees is no issue plus i have a HAF 932 which has amazing airflow if you ask me. I also have a corsair HX850w psu, so no problem there. An aftermarket air cooler for the GTX 480 is also available if needed. Sixthly, price to performance ratio in the USA does not apply to me. Iam Australian and the difference between the GTX 480 and the HD5870 is about $100 which is not alot considering the GTX 480 owns the HD5870 in almost every application. seventhly (here we go again), i don't plan on buying a new GPU every 6 months so i don't care weather ATI increases the clock speed and gives die shrinks. (if you have been doin this for a deckade, than i would have thought you would think more before you go posting silly things like that 
) The GTX480's noise level under load is less than that of the HD5870. http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy170/Alive777/Computer pictures/noise-load.gif ATI cards are cheaper because they don't pack the features of the NVIDIA cards. Oh by the way, please don't turn this thread into a flame war people.
) The GTX480's noise level under load is less than that of the HD5870. http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy170/Alive777/Computer pictures/noise-load.gif ATI cards are cheaper because they don't pack the features of the NVIDIA cards. Oh by the way, please don't turn this thread into a flame war people. CalcProgrammer1
Fully Optimized
- Messages
- 2,363
- Location
- Illinois, USA
Don't blame ATi for not having CUDA, blame nVidia for making proprietary restrictive systems and pushing them on developers before a good cross-platform standard is available.
ATi and nVidia both now support OpenCL and DirectCompute on their newest cards. These are two GPU computing technologies comparable to CUDA but work across manufacturer cards because they are standards and not proprietary to one manufacturer. Hopefully once these technologies mature a bit companies will start using them instead of CUDA for more compatible games. For now you'll just need a good CPU to handle the physics for you. I would strongly recommend you not get too involved with CUDA. You may miss out on some current games but CUDA is headed for death along with PhysX with DX11 having DirectCompute as its standard. In the future games will support physics cross platform, someone just needs to develop an OpenCL or DirectCompute based physics engine first.
I wouldn't praise nVidia for CUDA. What it did was anti-competitive and anti-open standards. It made PhysX to steal customers from ATi, plain and simple. PhysX was originally a third party card that just did physics processing, nVidia bought them out so they could lock people to nVidia cards. What you can do is use a cheaper nVidia card (or an older model like 8xxx, 9xxx) to do PhysX and CUDA processing while keeping your ATi 5xxx for the 3d graphics rendering, though this requires hacked drivers.
When I compare ATi and nVidia the main thing I see is if you want to do 3 monitor (or more) gaming go with ATi, if you want 3D gaming with the 3D Vision kit go nVidia. I wouldn't worry about CUDA because the replacement is right around the corner and buying into CUDA now would be a bit late. Considering I love my 3 monitor setup I'm sticking with ATi. I still like nVidia but I found ATi's latest offering to be the better choice this time around.
As far as unstable drivers go, I haven't had any driver stability issues from either side for a VERY long time. Driver stability is rock solid in both nVidia and ATi from what I've seen from both sides. I haven't had any major issues with my 5870 and the latest Catalyst releases but then again my nVidia card in my laptop hasn't had any driver issues ever. ATi used to have poor drivers (back when it wasn't owned by AMD, especially in Linux too) but these days the driver issues are gone.
ATi and nVidia both now support OpenCL and DirectCompute on their newest cards. These are two GPU computing technologies comparable to CUDA but work across manufacturer cards because they are standards and not proprietary to one manufacturer. Hopefully once these technologies mature a bit companies will start using them instead of CUDA for more compatible games. For now you'll just need a good CPU to handle the physics for you. I would strongly recommend you not get too involved with CUDA. You may miss out on some current games but CUDA is headed for death along with PhysX with DX11 having DirectCompute as its standard. In the future games will support physics cross platform, someone just needs to develop an OpenCL or DirectCompute based physics engine first.
I wouldn't praise nVidia for CUDA. What it did was anti-competitive and anti-open standards. It made PhysX to steal customers from ATi, plain and simple. PhysX was originally a third party card that just did physics processing, nVidia bought them out so they could lock people to nVidia cards. What you can do is use a cheaper nVidia card (or an older model like 8xxx, 9xxx) to do PhysX and CUDA processing while keeping your ATi 5xxx for the 3d graphics rendering, though this requires hacked drivers.
When I compare ATi and nVidia the main thing I see is if you want to do 3 monitor (or more) gaming go with ATi, if you want 3D gaming with the 3D Vision kit go nVidia. I wouldn't worry about CUDA because the replacement is right around the corner and buying into CUDA now would be a bit late. Considering I love my 3 monitor setup I'm sticking with ATi. I still like nVidia but I found ATi's latest offering to be the better choice this time around.
As far as unstable drivers go, I haven't had any driver stability issues from either side for a VERY long time. Driver stability is rock solid in both nVidia and ATi from what I've seen from both sides. I haven't had any major issues with my 5870 and the latest Catalyst releases but then again my nVidia card in my laptop hasn't had any driver issues ever. ATi used to have poor drivers (back when it wasn't owned by AMD, especially in Linux too) but these days the driver issues are gone.
- Status
