Piracy for Indie Games is Through the Roof

[XGC Forsakend]

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The sole discussion of piracy itself is still against the rules though. No matter the topic. I'm actually surprised a mod hasn't come to clean shop yet.

Yep. Surprised it wasn't re-closed and actually curious why it was re-openned actually.

So uhm, HI MODS!

 

[Ghostfreak]

Not to go off topic...But why is the discussion of piracy against the rules? I feel as though that's a bit strict...It's not like we're pirating...

 

[carnageX]

So even talking about Piracy is against rules. Talking about the levlels of it and what it does its not like we are exchanging way to make piracy easier or trading/selling pirated stuff.

The sole discussion of piracy itself is still against the rules though. No matter the topic. I'm actually surprised a mod hasn't come to clean shop yet.

Yep. Surprised it wasn't re-closed and actually curious why it was re-openned actually.

So uhm, HI MODS!

Not to go off topic...But why is the discussion of piracy against the rules? I feel as though that's a bit strict...It's not like we're pirating...

To answer all of these...

IMO, topics like these are fine. It's not advocating piracy, it's just discussing the effects of piracy. However, if you start discussing more detail, or games/media that you've pirated, etc.

The exact rules state:

6) Keep Things Legal
Any discussion, links, or information on hacking, cracking, serial numbers, pirating, warez, or any other illegal matters is not allowed. This includes talks of Emulators and Torrents. The links provide the information needed.
Talks of items that are not yet available by any legal means will also be taken in under this rule. This includes Games, Operating Systems, Service Packs and Betas not released yet to the public. Since there will be no way for people to obtain these by any other means then by Piracy or Warez.

But there is a gray area on the discussion part. The reason we have that worded the way we do though, is because piracy discussion used to be a big problem on these forums before we started cracking down. We just don't want to have to take responsibility for something that was posted by a member and end up with having to shut the forum down because of something that was posted.

So, tl;dr: Don't go into detail about piracy, what you've pirated, anything that's not out that' you're playing/listening to, etc. General talk about how it affects things, as long as it's kept civil, is fine by me. If it's not fine with another Mod/Admin, then they can do what they wish with this topic.

That is all .

 

[XGC Forsakend]

Well, thanks for the explanation as well as for allowing us to continue the discussion as long as it remains civil then.

 

[carnageX]

Well, thanks for the explanation as well as for allowing us to continue the discussion as long as it remains civil then.

Civil and legal .

 

[DistraughtSysop]

Somebody who pirates there is a 99% chance they wouldn't have bought it anyways. Not exactly losing a sale, that was never one to begin with.

That was the first thing I was going to say after reading the original post.

Using the Greenheart Games example, it's natural to look at the figures and think that you've lost 3000 sales, but it's a mistake to look at a pirated copy of something as a lost sale; in general, people will grab something if it's free and leave it if it's not. They weren't going to pay for it anyway, regardless of whether or not they were able to find a pirated copy. You're still losing sales, of course, but nowhere near 3000.

I'm not one to advocate piracy, but I also think that it tends to get overstated. Indie game devs are still able to turn a profit - they're not all going bankrupt. The success of games on sites like Kickstarter and Indiegogo also suggest to me that there are still plenty of people who want to support the devs. Popular intellectual properties are still making healthy profits; on the other hand, piracy does make for a convenient excuse when sales are down.

I guess my main point is that, if you want to get an indie project started, don't let fear of piracy be the thing that stops you. It's not some kind of hangman's noose that gets put around your neck the moment you get started. If you've got something really special then people will be happy to throw money at you.

 

[carnageX]

I guess my main point is that, if you want to get an indie project started, don't let fear of piracy be the thing that stops you. It's not some kind of hangman's noose that gets put around your neck the moment you get started. If you've got something really special then people will be happy to throw money at you.

IMO, Piracy for indie gamers can be a GREAT way to actually get started. If a starting developer wants to get a game out there and make a name for himself... he can distribute it for free over P2P sites, and have little NFO included (or credit screen in the game itself) stating if they liked it, they can donate or buy a copy to help start it out. Or even a "pay what you want" like Humble Bundle, or even bands / some movies (Loius C.K. did this with one of his stand up shows as well).

Chances are, a lot of people will donate and even spread word about the game via word of mouth, forums, chat, etc.

 

[PP Mguire]

That was the first thing I was going to say after reading the original post.

Using the Greenheart Games example, it's natural to look at the figures and think that you've lost 3000 sales, but it's a mistake to look at a pirated copy of something as a lost sale; in general, people will grab something if it's free and leave it if it's not. They weren't going to pay for it anyway, regardless of whether or not they were able to find a pirated copy. You're still losing sales, of course, but nowhere near 3000.

I'm not one to advocate piracy, but I also think that it tends to get overstated. Indie game devs are still able to turn a profit - they're not all going bankrupt. The success of games on sites like Kickstarter and Indiegogo also suggest to me that there are still plenty of people who want to support the devs. Popular intellectual properties are still making healthy profits; on the other hand, piracy does make for a convenient excuse when sales are down.

I guess my main point is that, if you want to get an indie project started, don't let fear of piracy be the thing that stops you. It's not some kind of hangman's noose that gets put around your neck the moment you get started. If you've got something really special then people will be happy to throw money at you.

IMO, Piracy for indie gamers can be a GREAT way to actually get started. If a starting developer wants to get a game out there and make a name for himself... he can distribute it for free over P2P sites, and have little NFO included (or credit screen in the game itself) stating if they liked it, they can donate or buy a copy to help start it out. Or even a "pay what you want" like Humble Bundle, or even bands / some movies (Loius C.K. did this with one of his stand up shows as well).

Chances are, a lot of people will donate and even spread word about the game via word of mouth, forums, chat, etc.

Both points I've made. Although not really in terms of the gaming side, but some universities have been doing studies showing that pirating does NOT affect music sales. I have a feeling this can be applied here too, because of what I, and sysop have already said. Odds have it, if it's pirated, it won't be bought to begin with. And the ever so argumented point, copying isn't theft.

There are also other reasons for pirated material, for instance say keeping your original game intact in the wrapper.

 

[lastplace09]

The fact that it is illegal in most parts of the world - is good enough for me to stay away from piracy.

I'd like to keep my job, savings, and criminal record clean.

Besides- who needs pirating when there is Let's Play videos for dang near every game.

 

[xIx EDGE xIx]

The fact that it is illegal in most parts of the world - is good enough for me to stay away from piracy.

I'd like to keep my job, savings, and criminal record clean.

Besides- who needs pirating when there is Let's Play videos for dang near every game.

If you think there's a ton now wait until PS4/XB1 launch with the ability to capture gaming footage and upload directly. The internet is going to be fillied to the brim x10 with let's plays.