obd II ?

[XWrench3]

we were at my father in laws 2 weeks ago for fathers day. while we were there, he showed me his new obd II tester, and how it worked. i have been thinking about getting one myself for a while. but i have so far been lucky enough that what has gone wrong with my cars, i have not NEEDED a scanner tool to figure out. but i know the day is coming where i will have to have one. but, i have to wonder if there is not a better mousetrap. since i have a good, modern, laptop now, i am wondering if someone makes a connector and software that would do all of thefunctions of a tester, and possibly much more. i know they make hi dollar programs for professional shops. but i am thinking something that would be in the same ball park as an obd II self contained tester price wise. it would be nice if it would allow some "tweaking" as well. does anyone have any experience with something like this???

 

[C0RR0SIVE]

"Tweaking" would cost a good bit more...

This is what I use, comes with a CD with a serial key for your software, and then the cable is the interface.

http://www.amazon.com/ScanTool-4258...ie=UTF8&qid=1435633107&sr=8-21&keywords=OBDII

It WILL pull make specific codes sometimes, which the software wont tell you what they mean, so you will end up having to use google to figure out those codes, but it will give details on OBDII specific codes. But, once you get the software, you can buy additional packages for different cars, as well as different types of systems.

I actually have mine hooked upto a touch-screen display in my car now, and use that as a secondary gauge cluster since it reports my estimated fuel mileage.

 

[carnageX]

I have this one (made by the same company that c0rr0sive posted): Amazon.com: ScanTool 427201 OBDLink LX Bluetooth: OBD Adapter/Diagnostic Scanner for Android & Windows: Automotive

I hook my smartphone / tablet up to it via bluetooth and have custom dashboards setup. I usually only use it for long trips to record my gas mileage and such (which I upload to my server at home and created graphs of each sensor that gets recorded for each trip I record). The one I have also has an auto-off feature that turns off after about 5 minutes of the car being off, and turns on automatically when I unlock my car.

Like he also said, the "tweaking" ones will be MUCH more expensive (as well as ones with access to more features), but the OBDLink ones are good for basic reading/clearing trouble codes.

 

[root]

It's probably worth mentioning that a lot of manufacturers use "custom" codes. and in this regard "generic" testers are sometimes more hassle than help.

If you're a start up garage then you might not be able to afford a full dealer system for each and every car you may get, but if you're a home user with a single car, then it makes sense to get a dedicated "dealer esq" cable.

If you're a full time professional garage, it makes sense to try to get the real deal for at least the most popular cars that you see.

By this I mean the generic OBD testers give you codes, (e.g. P101) and then you need to go to a lookup table and find out what that code actually means. there are phone apps that can provide the lookups, but, after the basic (and mandatory) codes you'll find that there are manufacturer specific ones that may have the same numbers but different meanings between manufacturers, and you may not be able to read custom codes at all.


I drive a French car (a Peugeot), so I've got a (rather old) Peugeot planet/Lexia cable, (this means that I could "read" and "configure" any car made by the PSA group (Peugeot and Citroen) as my wife previously had a Reanult car I also had the "Renault clip" cable and software, that reads Renault cars, and cars equipped with their DCI engines, (Dacia and some Nissans). Basically, I had the equipment to read faults from every modern French car. -which is why I say it's not impossible for a commercial garage to have the proper gear. (I've sold the Renault cable since she's got a VW now, and bought a VW cable and rosstech software)

the "proper" (i.e not generic ODBII reader) cables and software will enable you to get good information in plain English.

an example of this is when I had a braking fault light come up, a generic reader may just say braking fault, (not much help since the dash light already said that), it may say fault detected in the ABS circuit, (a little better, but not very specific and could lead to a large spend trouble shooting).
My "manufacturer" cable and laptop said, "Rear right ABS sensor fault." -and that was a £5 swap done in less than a day.

Additionally as well as reading, the manufacturer cable lets to "do" certain things. you are able to re-write firmware (though that is not the same as chipping your car - you need a different set of cables for that!) you're able to test actuators. - e.g. my laptop can say to the car that it should test the dial needles, or put the lights on or open the windows, or lock the doors, then if I've got an issue with any of those things, rather than breaking out a multimeter and testing voltage signals etc I can go into a test mode and poke the switch, if the laptop says that a switch was pressed, then in a few seconds I'm able to know that the switch the loom wiring and the interface to the onboard computer is fine.

If the computer can move a window, but the switch can't - and the switch output doesn't show on the laptop then I know that there is a switch or wire problem. if a fuse has blown, it'll tell me that there is no power detected in whatever circuit is tested.

Sure, it's about five times the cost of the generic one to grab an old surplus unit that a garage is getting rid of, or a clone of a cable manufactured in the far east, but the utility of those cables is far beyond what a generic cable will tell you, (if it works at all) (e.g. ELM based cables don't work on the car I have).

I'm a member of Peugeot forums (the brand of car I drive), there they have a map of users that have the cable and are willing to help others.
so you may find that you don't have to buy the really expensive dealers cable, as there maybe someone nearby in whatever country you're in willing to help you either for free, or very little cost (compared to a garage).

Or you may find that if you do buy that, you might be able to help pay for it by offering to help others for a very small fee. (as some on that forum do)

for me, I paid £150 for the reader and software (7 years ago), a garage will charge £40 - £60 (depending on the garage) to read and clear faults. I've used my reader about 10 times over the years I've had the car, and helped others, it's more than paid for itself in the time and money it saved me.

To answer your other question, no there is no one cable/device that will read all codes from all cars. (you'd really think that someone would get on that!)

 

[C0RR0SIVE]

Could have sworn I made a post and it didn't go through...

The cable I use lets me pull both OBDII and Manufacture specific codes, provided I buy the proper software. I can pull codes from any of the Big3 (Dodge/Chrysler, Ford, GM) manufactures, the basic package with the scanner I linked pulls OBDII, explains the codes, what the typical causes for the codes are and so on. I can buy additional packages to work with the software (at about $100 for each manufacture), and read other codes such as ABS, Transmission, HVAC (if such coding exists for the manufacture), and in rare instances read data from the body controller, which is really pointless here since most body controllers handle just illumination, though, now security systems are also being added to those.

It's most likely different in other countries, but here, every car sold must have an OBDII system, and that system must report a certain code set (Mostly emissions, basically anything related to the engine). So really, any OBDII scanner works if you are just having engine troubles. P0141 for Ford is going to be the same as P0141 for GM, and Chrysler/Dodge.

Now that I think about it, the ONLY shops that have manufacture specific scanners here are the dealers, most shops use basic OBDII scanners, unless you are a transmission shop.

Here, a REAL Manufacture Specific Scanner can cost upwards of $1500 or more (now that I think about it, some cost far more than that, I remember seeing Tech2's going for around $5000 at some points in time due to issues with clones and difficulty in finding them), and requires you to buy CF Modules at the tune of a few hundred every year or two for the newer cars coming off the line. That is certainly not profitable for the average shop here. Oh, and that scanner would work only for a single manufacture.. When you sit here and think... GM + Ford + Dodge + Toyota + god knows what else is common in your area, prices sky-rocket... Right now, a 2010 Tech2 is $4800... Yeah, no thanks. The average garage would never splurge on such a tool.

 

[root]

there is a specific protocol, (with either and SA or ISO number) that *must* be present.
Usually that's reading codes from the K line. and relates to EODB. then there is another protocol that applies to the J line, it isn't the case that both must be present.

it's not unusual for a code from 1 manufacturer to very specifically mean 1 thing, and yet the same code, with a different code also logged to mean something entirely different. (in terms of what you need to do.)

Then you have codes U2571 reserved for manufacturer specific CAN codes...

Therein lines the project, that protocol doesn't say that manufacturers can't extend at will, just that if there is a fault logged that matches exactly with the description of the code, that the fault should be logged to that code (in a buffer on indeterminate size)

for my brake fault, (Left Rear ABS Sensor Malfunction) to only fault that could have been logged was:
P1637 CAN Link ECM/ABS Control Module Circuit/Network

that's a pretty big (and possibly expensive to start looking at) fault. faced with the possibility of going through sensors one by one, then possibly a new wiring loom, then possible a new control module for the ABS system, I'd have probably ditched the car.

(do American cars really only have engine computer, I've get a seperate computer for Engine, Braking, Body (lights and windows) gear box, climate control, the body one is even split up because of the auto lights and wiping, (my car turns on it's own lights in the dark and wipes it's own window in the rain.)

If there wasn't much in it, I'd plum for the vehicle specific cable and software every time over a generic reader.

the manufacturer specific one can let you turn on features, (for example I've got a phone connector in mine that plugs in the back of the stereo where the auto changer should go, now I control my phone playing music with the steering wheel control stalk for the stereo.)
I've seen people buy a £10 stalk that controls cruise control, and "turn on the feature" in software, as all the hardware to support it is already in the car, - that was a £150 optional extra at sale time!

 

[C0RR0SIVE]

Most american cars have 2 to 5...

Engine, Transmission those are essentially mandatory these days on automatic cars. Then you get some that have a Body Controller which handles lights, climate and everything else in one if it's all automated... There are a few odd-ball ones like some Mazdas where it has two separate engine computers, though to regular scanners they both report the same data, a dealership scan tool will pick up extra data from the secondary computer from my understanding. Then you get into luxury cars that would typically always go to a dealership that can have several different computer systems.

They try to keep things as simplistic, but complicated as possible... Like cars with automated headlights here, you have a photosensor that goes to the body controller, and that body controller will turn the headlights on either dim or normal depending on the lighting conditions, then cars with out a body controller (not common anymore) just use a relay system with that photo sensor.

One thing about american cars, depending on the make AND model, the dash lights can and usually do give indications of what could be faulty... Let's say you have a GrandAm, and a wheel bearing speed sensor is malfunctioning, you won't be able to tell which one with out a scanner (yes generic scanner will give the code) but the dash will illuminate three lights, Traction Control, Engine Service, and Vehicle Service, that indicates a hub going bad.

Truth be told, most everything goes to the engine computer or transmission computer here, very little goes to the body computer. The only computer that would need a manufacture specific scanner would mostly be the body computer (or any specialty computer), even then, with the right software package for most scanners here, you can get the codes from that computer as well unless it IS a luxury car, or something like a newer BMW.

Personally... The only time I would ever consider buying a $5000 scanner is if I know I am going to be flashing new code to a computer quiet often, that's one of the only things that a modern DECENT scanner that connects to your computer can't do... But, some companies make and sell specialty scanners that use your laptop for a few hundred that can flash the EEPROM on cars. Far cheaper than the dealership equipment that would normally be required.

Off the top of my head...
Brakes, Transmission, Engine, can almost always be pulled with a decent scanner that connects to your laptop.

HVAC (IF it's computer controlled like it is on mid 90's and newer Lincolns) requires a Dealership scanner (again, $5000 or more), even then, basic trouble shooting steps would apply with an HVAC issue, such as a blend door malfunctioning, don't need a computer to tell me that I am going to have to replace an actuator or stepper motor as it's such a common issue on many different types of cars. But, if you press the right sequence of buttons, you can easily get the display to show an error code that can quickly be deciphered in an FSM.

Body components such as Windows, Lights, Airbags and so on will either be so basic they don't have a REAL computer that performs diagnostics, or if they do have a computer, still basic enough that you don't need a scanner, it's just a luxury to have one for those.

Cars with other special things like backup sensors, automated braking and god knows what else isn't really common enough here yet, though they will be in another 5 to 10 years, I would imagine by that time someone will come up with a cheaper scanner that can interface with those systems for multiple makes and models, or the government *MIGHT* step in again and dictate that they all share a common system for error reporting and diagnostics.


The next thing... If you work on enough cars, and see a common problem with a certain line of cars that comes into your shop, that basic scanner might say give an emissions code, but, 9 out of the last 10 that came in with the exact same symptoms and codes just had a faulty gas cap or filler neck, so you would immediately check that before you poke anything else. In the end it all comes down to experience, troubleshooting, and understanding that you don't have to absolutely have a high end factory scanner to do repairs unless you run into something that's incredibly specialized or unique... And I would hope that someone that has a complicated car or something in the luxury area of automobiles would take it to a dealership where they have the equipment to check things out.