C0RR0SIVE
Golden Master
- Messages
- 9,213
- Location
- Lexington, KY
100k is admirable on a clutch IMO, most people tend to do some harsh things to them when learning how to drive with that particular car/clutch.
This is something that happened slowly over time (could have been quick due to metal shavings) and wouldn't have been found without removing the valve body and inspecting it, which won't happen unless a shop is doing diagnostics trying to find a point of failure. The valve body is right above your filter, on the inside, it's the first place that really sees your transmission fluid, so if your getting shavings at that point, they will be pumped all over the transmission causing damage, it can be fast, it can be slow.
So to answer your question, "would the end user providing regular maintenance have caught this even if they were providing maintenance to the vehicle earlier than what was recommended?", no, they would not have noticed, nor would your dealer ship, as then they want the money to pull your transmission to service it fully at that point, any shop would, as the valve body is very delicate.
BTW, you wouldn't believe how SOFT that the aluminum on the inside of a transmission is, a shaving inside the valve body can very quickly in some transmissions kill it. BTW, a clutch going bad in a manual shift car isn't that bad to replace, far easier than anything in an auto.
I honestly think it's partially a design flaw on your car, with the fluid being worn and basically run it's life well before you noticed the slip, then again, on chevy impalas they have an issue with one of the shift solenoids in the valve body going bad, and it's just a $50 part, but will run you $1300 at a shop very easily, it isn't that it goes bad, but that the fluid life is very important to the smooth operation of that solenoid.
Lets look at a car on why this fluid is a bit more critical...
Inside your engine you have motor oil, it's meant to lubricate, carry away dirt into the filter, and to make up a small gap smaller than the thickness of a human hair around many parts, that is all it's meant to do, it gets dirty, very dirty FAST compared to transmission fluid due to the combustion cycle.
Now, inside your transmission, you have several gears moving around in a planet carrier, that must be lubricated as any metal moving around metal must be to keep heat down, and cause less friction. Now, you also have to have a fluid under pressure, and be very water like to be able to get into the millions of SMALL spaces of a valve body to be controlled. Now, on top of this, it must carry dirt away (clutch material, fine metal produced over time from gears in constant movement with each other) and into the filter and pass through that filter quickly, hence part of the idea for it being thinner.
A single metal shaving, can actually in most transmissions, if found inside that valve body, clog it completely, and ruin your transmission, this is due to how small those lines are, the shavings are probably being caused by two pieces of aluminum that have ridiculously tight tolerances to each other (your solenoid/valve that is inside the valve body, picture a piston) that for some reason aren't being lubricated, possibly due to some dirt forming at the bottom of the gallery, and it's now metal on metal, slowly pulling up a slice of aluminum each time it moves.
I am honestly thinking about buying a CD collection with all of GM's FSM so I can learn a bit more about how there transmissions operate.
BTW, here is half of a valve body, showing how small and how many small tubes your fluid is basically having to rush through... http://www.wwdsltd.com/4L60/4L60EUpperValveBodyCheckLg.jpg
Anyways, in the end I can't find much that it is a serious issue, just that GM has listed a TSB to GM service techs for something dealing with your transmissions valve body.
This is something that happened slowly over time (could have been quick due to metal shavings) and wouldn't have been found without removing the valve body and inspecting it, which won't happen unless a shop is doing diagnostics trying to find a point of failure. The valve body is right above your filter, on the inside, it's the first place that really sees your transmission fluid, so if your getting shavings at that point, they will be pumped all over the transmission causing damage, it can be fast, it can be slow.
So to answer your question, "would the end user providing regular maintenance have caught this even if they were providing maintenance to the vehicle earlier than what was recommended?", no, they would not have noticed, nor would your dealer ship, as then they want the money to pull your transmission to service it fully at that point, any shop would, as the valve body is very delicate.
BTW, you wouldn't believe how SOFT that the aluminum on the inside of a transmission is, a shaving inside the valve body can very quickly in some transmissions kill it. BTW, a clutch going bad in a manual shift car isn't that bad to replace, far easier than anything in an auto.
I honestly think it's partially a design flaw on your car, with the fluid being worn and basically run it's life well before you noticed the slip, then again, on chevy impalas they have an issue with one of the shift solenoids in the valve body going bad, and it's just a $50 part, but will run you $1300 at a shop very easily, it isn't that it goes bad, but that the fluid life is very important to the smooth operation of that solenoid.
Lets look at a car on why this fluid is a bit more critical...
Inside your engine you have motor oil, it's meant to lubricate, carry away dirt into the filter, and to make up a small gap smaller than the thickness of a human hair around many parts, that is all it's meant to do, it gets dirty, very dirty FAST compared to transmission fluid due to the combustion cycle.
Now, inside your transmission, you have several gears moving around in a planet carrier, that must be lubricated as any metal moving around metal must be to keep heat down, and cause less friction. Now, you also have to have a fluid under pressure, and be very water like to be able to get into the millions of SMALL spaces of a valve body to be controlled. Now, on top of this, it must carry dirt away (clutch material, fine metal produced over time from gears in constant movement with each other) and into the filter and pass through that filter quickly, hence part of the idea for it being thinner.
A single metal shaving, can actually in most transmissions, if found inside that valve body, clog it completely, and ruin your transmission, this is due to how small those lines are, the shavings are probably being caused by two pieces of aluminum that have ridiculously tight tolerances to each other (your solenoid/valve that is inside the valve body, picture a piston) that for some reason aren't being lubricated, possibly due to some dirt forming at the bottom of the gallery, and it's now metal on metal, slowly pulling up a slice of aluminum each time it moves.
I am honestly thinking about buying a CD collection with all of GM's FSM so I can learn a bit more about how there transmissions operate.
BTW, here is half of a valve body, showing how small and how many small tubes your fluid is basically having to rush through... http://www.wwdsltd.com/4L60/4L60EUpperValveBodyCheckLg.jpg
Anyways, in the end I can't find much that it is a serious issue, just that GM has listed a TSB to GM service techs for something dealing with your transmissions valve body.
