lol AHHAHAHAH IM SCREEWWEEEDD!!

[Apokalipse]

That isn't an improvement.

Yes it is. One of people's biggest complaints about Agena is that it didn't clock as well as C2Q.

If Deneb was more than superficially faster than Agena then it will be faster clock for clock.

It is faster clock for clock.

Just being able to overclock farther doesn't prove much. That can be explained by the die shrink.

There's more than a die shrink. They're also using the silicon germanium transistors that didn't make it into Agena, and ultra low-K dielectrics for the wires.
Its performance per watt is a lot better than Agena/Barcelona.

 

[Hussein19891]

So what did Intel have on AMD Phenoms? Other then being faster clock for clock and being able to overclock much higher?

 

[Apokalipse]

So what did Intel have on AMD Phenoms? Other then being faster clock for clock and being able to overclock much higher?

Lower power consumption, but that's an area where Deneb/Shanghai is really improving on. They may even be ahead in that area.
the lower power leakage and silicon germanium transistors, combined with the die shrink are giving significant performance per watt increases.

 

[ricanflow]

You can clearly see in the benchmarks that at the same clock speeds the deneb chip is faster...heck in one of them its twice as fast!

I dont see how you cant call that an improvement....sigh.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

That's probably because Deneb is still under NDA

but Shanghai is just out, and is getting much higher performance per watt, as well as 2.8GHZ stock speeds. IPC is approximately 10-15% better [in server applications vs Barcelona].

But I wouldn't be surprised to see 4GHZ on air/water for Deneb.
That combined with their low price, and AM2+ compatibility makes them a great choice.

So if it's still under nda how do you know phenom wasn't made for 65nm?

From what I have seen deneb isn't going to be that cheap. Considering more people have p35/45 motherboards itr seem like Yorkfiled is a better upgrade option for most users.

You can clearly see in the benchmarks that at the same clock speeds the deneb chip is faster...heck in one of them its twice as fast!

I dont see how you cant call that an improvement....sigh.

In some of them it shows very little improvement betweeen a equaly clocked deneb and agena.

 

[Apokalipse]

So if it's still under nda how do you know phenom wasn't made for 65nm?

By the way 65nm Phenom actually behaves in comparision to leaked info on Deneb. i.e. experimental evidence.

From what I have seen deneb isn't going to be that cheap.

It'll be significantly cheaper to make than Agena.

Considering more people have p35/45 motherboards itr seem like Yorkfiled is a better upgrade option for most users.

Or for people getting a new system (motherboard included), AM2+ is not only futureproof (AM3 CPU's work in AM2+, and some AM2 boards), but also priced well while still having a lot of features.

In some of them it shows very little improvement betweeen a equaly clocked deneb and agena.

Same with Yorkfield vs Kentsfield.

But on average, there's going to be a significant IPC increase.
From leaked info, and Shanghai performance, I'd say it's likely to be 10-15% on average.
And that's coupled with the higher stock clocks, and higher overclockability.

 

[zmatt]

^Not true. Penryn is a 5-10% faster than Conroe. I don't know if you could say the same for Deneb.

 

[ricanflow]

Id say deneb is actually even faster than that compared to agena.

And it can get to 4ghz, which agena cant.

 

[zmatt]

Lets forget about overclocking for a second. Lets talk about Deneb's improvements clock for clock and performance per watt. Overclocking is secondary to performance. If two chips are the same speed clock for clock, but one can oc a bit farther, that hardly constitutes an improvement. That means hardly anything with real influence was done to optimize the architecture.

 

[Puddle Jumper]

By the way 65nm Phenom actually behaves in comparision to leaked info on Deneb. i.e. experimental evidence.

That hardly means Phenon wasn't made for 65nm. Nearly every die shirk performs better than it's predecessor.