Computer advice

PP Mguire

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Fort Worth, Texas
They may be, however I've been using four for at least 10 years no problems.

Of course they have been run at a much slower speed than their max speed and they do so well with a radiator.

However I would love to use only what fans are necessary as I really do not like fans and much prefer liquid cooling whatever possible.
You still need fans for airflow. Considering these fans are $15 new you can get much better fans based on much newer proven designs like this Corsair SP120.
https://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Hydr...ics&sprefix=corsair+120,electronics,95&sr=1-5
If you get a 360 AIO you'll need at least 3 for that radiator, 1 in the back, and I'd put 3 on the bottom too.

The computer itself comes with fans that work fine and can get rather silent. Buying more fans will add at least an addition 100 to the cost.
 

ikonix360

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Getting the AeroCool fans will maybe be something I do later.

What's nice is the higher end i9 processor is included in the price, whereas with the other PC only comes with an i7 stock.

How good would this liquid cooling be?

Thermaltake Custom Flexible Tubing Water Cooling kit with 360mm Radiator, W4 CPU Block, D5 Reservoir+Pump (3 x Standard 120MM Fans)


So here's what I selected just thinking of all my options

Operating System: Windows 11 Home
MLK Featured Promotions: None
Extra Instant Rebate: Extra $50 Instant off on all Custom Build Desktops or Laptops
Gaming Chassis: CORSAIR ICUE 4000X RGB SERIES ATX Mid-Tower Gaming Chassis + AirGuide RGB fans (Black)
Laser Engraving: None
Extra Case Fans: Default case fans
CPU: Intel® Core™ Processor i9-13900K 8P/16 + 16E 3.00GHz [Turbo 5.7GHz] 36MB Cache LGA1700
Freebie of Processor: None
Venom Boost Fast And Efficient Factory Overclocking: No Overclocking
CPU / Processor Cooling Fan: Thermaltake Custom Flexible Tubing Water Cooling kit with 360mm Radiator, W4 CPU Block, D5 Reservoir+Pump (3 x Standard 120MM Fans)
Coolant for Cyberpower Xtreme Hydro Water Cooling Kits: None
Video Card: MSI GeForce RTX™ 4070 Ti GAMING X TRIO 12GB GDDR6X Video Card (Ada Lovelace) [VR Ready] (Single Card)
Freebie of Video Card: None
Power Supply: 1000Watts - Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 1000W 80+ GOLD w/ PCIE 12+4Pins Connector for PCIe 5.0 graphics cards
Motherboard: ASUS PRIME Z790-P WIFI D5 DDR5 ATX w/ Wi-Fi, 2.5GbT LAN, (4)PCIe x16,(1)PCIe x1, (3)M.2, (4)SATA
RAM / System Memory: 32GB (16GBx2) DDR5/6000MHz Dual Channel Memory (Team T-Delta RGB)
Primary Hard Drive: 1TB Kingston FURY Renegade (PCIe Gen4) NVMe M.2 SSD - Seq R/W: Up to 7300/6000 MB/s, Rnd R/W up to 900/1000k (Single Drive)
Secondary Hard Drive: None
External Storage: None
Video Capture Card: None
Internal Wireless Network Card: None
Sound: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
Monitor: None
Freebie of Monitor: None
Cables: None
Speakers: None
Internal Network Card: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network
Keyboard: CyberPowerPC Multimedia USB Gaming Keyboard
Mouse: CyberPowerPC Lyra 01 RGB 6-Color w/ 7 Button USB wired, 4200DPI Optical Gaming Mouse
Mouse Pad: None
Headset: None
Microphone: None
Gaming Apparel: None
Gaming Gear: None
Wireless Routers/Hubs: None
Video Camera: None
Power & Surge Protection: None
External Accessories: None
Windows Recovery: None
Professional Wiring: None
Ultra Care Option: None
Warranty: STANDARD WARRANTY: 1 Year Parts WARRANTY
Service: 3 Years FREE Service Plan (INCLUDES LABOR AND LIFETIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT)
Rush Service: Standard processing time: ship within 7 to 10 Business Days

Subtotal:
$3,002

Never knew it was so easy to custom build a PC. Last PC I built I had to go select the individual parts and hope they all worked well together. Now a website has every option available and determines if an option I select works with the rest of the options and tells me what to change an option to if it won't work.

What I like is how upgradable the PC is.

I can easily upgrade components later as the need arises.

EDIT:

Far as overclocking goes I doubt I'll ever need to do that, but if I do I'll use Throttle Stop.

If I feel the need to overclock the graphics card I'll use MSI Afterburner which is one reason I selected an MSI video card.
 
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PP Mguire

Build Guru
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Fort Worth, Texas
What's nice is the higher end i9 processor is included in the price, whereas with the other PC only comes with an i7 stock.
The 13700k and 13900k are similar in performance for gaming, with only the biggest difference being the amount of E cores the i9 has. If you look at my specs you'll see I have the i7 12700k rather than an i9 for that reason. They both have the same amount of performance cores.
How good would this liquid cooling be?

Thermaltake Custom Flexible Tubing Water Cooling kit with 360mm Radiator, W4 CPU Block, D5 Reservoir+Pump (3 x Standard 120MM Fans)
Temp spikes will be the same since it's a cheap block. The copper radiator will help with a larger delta to heat soak but honestly you'll never max the i9 out anyways in terms of getting that far. It's just going to be way more maintenance compared to the AIO that comes with the PC, as you'll need to drain, flush, and bleed the custom water system every 6 months. Thermaltake's kits also use cheap clear tubing that will yellow rather quickly as well. It's going to be a lot more maintenance for the same temps. There's a reason it's practically the same cost as that Corsair AIO on the bottom of that selection list.
Power Supply: 1000Watts - Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 1000W 80+ GOLD w/ PCIE 12+4Pins Connector for PCIe 5.0 graphics cards
If you're going with 1000W get the Corsair 1000W RMe instead.
Never knew it was so easy to custom build a PC. Last PC I built I had to go select the individual parts and hope they all worked well together. Now a website has every option available and determines if an option I select works with the rest of the options and tells me what to change an option to if it won't work.
This is still a pre-built PC, just using off the shelf components. They limit you in what you can actually buy in terms of better components elsewhere like motherboard, power supply, RAM, etc. Here's an example of better GPU (4080), better PSU, better brand RAM, same case, realistic CPU for same performance, better and higher capacity SSD, and better name brand AIO cooler. All for the same cost minus the convenience. Both machines at the end of the day will be great, you're just paying more for it to be built.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/DrxJd9


Far as overclocking goes I doubt I'll ever need to do that, but if I do I'll use Throttle Stop.

If I feel the need to overclock the graphics card I'll use MSI Afterburner which is one reason I selected an MSI video card.
Throttlestop isn't for this kind of hardware. CPU OC's on these machines will need to be done via the bios, and realistically all you need to do is just use 'multicore enhancements' option in the Asus bios which removes CPU power limits.

MSI Afterburner isn't brand specific, it can be used on any brand of hardware. The 4000 series will be the last supported because MSI stopped paying the guy developing this software for a year since the war started. (The dev is Russian)
 

ikonix360

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So the stuff listed on that PC part picker link is better than what I've selected, right?

Only thing I might fo different is go with koolance for the liquid cooling as I've had nothing but a good experience with their stuff unless the liquid cooler selected is real good.

However they don't have as many products for PC cooing as they once had.

Most likely due to how many graphics cards, memory ETC... there are and how often new ones come out. No liquid cooling company could keep up with that as they would have 100s of products that only some would buy which would be obsoleted in a few months anyways.

What exactly are the E cores for? That's a new terminology to me.

Now once I get the new PC I'm gonna swap the NVME drives between the two old PCs I have with the one with liquid cooling being more of a server type role and the other moving into the house to replace a 2009 laptop.
 
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PP Mguire

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Fort Worth, Texas
So the stuff listed on that PC part picker link is better than what I've selected, right?
For the most part yes. Not so much in raw performance besides the GPU, but in terms of brand quality.

Only thing I might fo different is go with koolance for the liquid cooling as I've had nothing but a good experience with their stuff unless the liquid cooler selected is real good.

However they don't have as many products for PC cooing as they once had.

Most likely due to how many graphics cards, memory ETC... there are and how often new ones come out. No liquid cooling company could keep up with that as they would have 100s of products that only some would buy which would be obsoleted in a few months anyways.
Can't really stress it enough, just stick with the closed loop cooler for now. Koolance is a brand from yesteryear and were mainly replaced by Swiftech, which has lately been replaced by Alphacool (in terms of performance for dollar brand). Watercool makes the best blocks that aren't as atheistically pleasing, and EK makes really expensive good blocks that look great. Every mainstream water block manufacturer produces blocks for every generation of CPU and GPU and will continue to do so unless something major happens.
No cooling setup can actually properly handle the temp spike of a high load on either of the current i9 CPUs or high core count AMD CPUs. Custom water is superior in every way but the bang for buck isn't there in ways I don't really have time to explain right now. For a common game/stream load these closed loop (AIO) water coolers with a 360 rad are perfectly adequate for everyday use and are 1/6th the cost. I use the Phanteks 360 MPH on my own 12700k and my wife's power hungry overclocked 7800x.
Not only that, but the coolers on these 4000 series cards are so over engineered and large that they keep the GPUs in the 60s under load with low fan noise. Even my 3090ti stays in the low 70s at 30% fan during gaming which is a 450W load.

What exactly are the E cores for? That's a new terminology to me.
E cores are efficiency cores. Intel's answer to lots of AMD cores. They are lower power less performant cores to handle multi-threaded tasks and background tasks. P cores are the performance cores which have all the power and clock speeds. It's what's allowing Intel to have such high core clocks on their P cores.
This is why I say the i9 is pointless. Both the 13700k and 13900k have 8 performance cores, and the only big difference is the i9 has 16 E cores.
 

ikonix360

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Yep Koolance when the Xbox360 was out were right up there in terms of sheer availability of water blocks for different CPUs and GPUs and other things such as RAM & hard drive cooling. Back then I think liquid cooling wasn't as popular so there were not as many manufacturers which enabled companies like Koolance to thrive. They even had their own forum at one time. However I think over the years they started to focus on fewer products with some aimed at PCs and the majority aimed at things engineers, designers ETC... might need. I often wonder how many liquid cooling manufacturers use some of the same parts made by someone else only branded as the different brands.

I'd definitely take quality over performance and it will get me a gaming PC now, besides I can always upgrade stuff later if I feel the need to.

I do plan on using that closed loop cooler for sure. Painless to install and I don't have to cut tubing, bleed it and hope there's no leaks.

I want things as cool as reasonably possible, but sometimes what I think is reasonable may actually be a bit unreasonable or sometimes it's more of a because I can sort of thing. However, just because I can doesn't mean I should. Sometimes it takes others to point out the unreasonableness of what I'm trying to do and when I listen to them I find out they were exactly right. Plus I want the PC to be reliable as it will most likely run 24/7 so I don't need to add anything that's not actually necessary which could reduce the reliability.

One reason I like liquid cooling is because it's quieter, however I realize that things like case fans don't have to be run full speed as their main purpose is to move air in and out of the case so quality case fans will be quieter and move air.

I'll go ahead and place the order then.

I chose the buy on Amazon option.

I also chose the heatsink option for the NVME drive.



EDIT:

Forgot to buy Windows 11 so I just ordered it. I chose the USB option.

Grand total.

$3,444.64

Also I do intend on getting a gaming monitor for the main monitor, however I will not be doing that until I get a 12' X 24' building as I'd have nowhere to put it at the moment.

I should now be able to use one PC to play Fortnite at the highest graphics settings, stream in 720P to YouTube and monitor my stream.
 
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PP Mguire

Build Guru
Messages
32,272
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
Yep Koolance when the Xbox360 was out were right up there in terms of sheer availability of water blocks for different CPUs and GPUs and other things such as RAM & hard drive cooling. Back then I think liquid cooling wasn't as popular so there were not as many manufacturers which enabled companies like Koolance to thrive. They even had their own forum at one time. However I think over the years they started to focus on fewer products with some aimed at PCs and the majority aimed at things engineers, designers ETC... might need. I often wonder how many liquid cooling manufacturers use some of the same parts made by someone else only branded as the different brands.
Yea the 360 stuff was almost 20 years ago lol. Koolance in itself hasn't been a brand used in enthusiast PCs for the past 10 years at least. Honestly the only thing I've ever looked at Koolance for this entire time has been their single stage phase change system but I don't think they offer it anymore.
Nobody is using the same parts because of patents and tooling required except for what you see offered on Aliexpress, Wish, etc. The thing about water is there's only so much you can do. All of these brands are so close in performance and flow rate it's not even funny so the only way to differentiate is by design. I'm honestly surprised that EK became the defacto "name" brand in water because their stuff is pretty mid compared to others and their cost. Then again, Razer was able to do the same thing since everybody has been trying to copy the Apple process for 10 years.
I want things as cool as reasonably possible, but sometimes what I think is reasonable may actually be a bit unreasonable or sometimes it's more of a because I can sort of thing. However, just because I can doesn't mean I should. Sometimes it takes others to point out the unreasonableness of what I'm trying to do and when I listen to them I find out they were exactly right. Plus I want the PC to be reliable as it will most likely run 24/7 so I don't need to add anything that's not actually necessary which could reduce the reliability.
It's not exactly unreasonable, but like my last message touched on it's incredibly difficult to really relay just how different current CPUs are compared to what you've been used to. Even AMD and Intel's current top models differ greatly but both have the same issue of massive heat spike in a small concentrated area. It makes very difficult to keep that under control with any conventional cooling you can buy. At that point it doesn't make much sense in spending 500-700 on custom water vs a 150 dollar AIO when at the end of the day you'll have the same spikes that level out. This is coming from a dude who's used custom water stuff for around 15 years off and on. I have an entire loop in a completely different case all setup that I don't use because to get the best performance of cooling out of my current CPU it requires an ILM swap, delid, liquid metal, specific blocks, blah blah. Only for the spikes to be about the same as on my current cooler. Eventually even I had to say what's the damn point. My CPU loaded stays under 70c still, my GPU on air is cool and quiet. And because of the raw performance of what we have available today I don't even OC. And when it comes time for maintenance it takes me less than 30 minutes vs a few hours with a custom loop. It's a no brainer at that point.
I also chose the heatsink option for the NVME drive
That wasn't necessary as these boards have built in heatsinks that work pretty well.
 

ikonix360

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1. I do know some things such as the Koolance PMP-400 is under different names, but is the same pump. Also I'm sure some basic radiators are the same between brands. Talking about the manufacturers with offerings for DIY cooling loops.

2. I also used to want a full liquid cooling loop but like you eventually said what's the point.

3. Did not know that.
 

PP Mguire

Build Guru
Messages
32,272
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
1. I do know some things such as the Koolance PMP-400 is under different names, but is the same pump. Also I'm sure some basic radiators are the same between brands. Talking about the manufacturers with offerings for DIY cooling loops.
It's based off the Laing DDC design which is the same every other brand uses. EK actually uses a different brand with tweaks but the overall design is still the same as it's been for 2 decades or so.
 
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