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Old 09-21-2004, 08:48 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Not!)

As a recent member of tech-forum I was not surprised to find so many threads expressing concern or disappointement over XP Service Pack 2.

To quote from the August edition of Australian PC magazine, "SP2, more than any other of it's predecessors, is a risky patch job." And, "SP2 is no mere patch job. It's a major upgrade." As if this isn't enough, "SP2 focuses almost exclusively on security, even ahead of backward compatability. This means that some existing applications are going to break, and even some hardware may not work correctly."

Frightening. I would suggest that the extra security provided by SP2 is not worth the potential drama for the average user. I for one would be avoiding it like the plague without a complete system backup/restore regime.
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Old 09-21-2004, 11:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Not!)

Quote:
Originally posted by Monty61
This means that some existing applications are going to break, and even some hardware may not work correctly."

Frightening. I would suggest that the extra security provided by SP2 is not worth the potential drama for the average user. I for one would be avoiding it like the plague without a complete system backup/restore regime.
This happened to me. None of my programs worked and I had to do a system restore. Don't get it if you were thinking about it. It's just a waste of time and nothing but trouble!
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Old 09-21-2004, 02:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I've got all my home machines on SP2, and all the machines at work are on SP2, and we're encountered minor problems at worst.

Any time you do a major upgrade of an OS and you're worried about the fallout, you should do something intelligent like read the documentation and release notes, BEFORE you upgrade. Just common sense.

Microsoft said there would be some problems with legacy hardware, and sure enough a couple of our really old (4+ years) machines ran into some difficulty. We even had to replace a 6 year old drive due to driver incompatability. But that's nothing! You can't expect Microsoft (or any major OS builder) to support people's 386's forever. But that's besides the point. We were smart and took a look at how upgrading would impact out systems, before we upgraded. Everything went smooth. We didn't expect the security to work the same, either, because we figured when Microsoft said "new imporved security" they probably meant that the security would be new, and improved. Reading the doco, we quickly had the few minor problems under control.

As for home, I've got all my computers running SP2 without problems, including my 6 year old PII WinBook which is more of a conversational peice than a work machine anyway.

If you were concerned about SP2, you probably should have waited for the initial bugs to be sorted out. There are always bugs with new OS releases, especially when they're on the scale of a Windows release. Also, if you do some back checking, you'll notice that every single time Windows puts out an OS or an OS-update, you get hordes of Chicken-Littles screaming about how the sky is falling and how we've "never seen it so bad!"

Oh yes. We're going to just shrivel up and die here, folks. I've already got my generator and 75 years worth of canned spam.

Sure SP2 has a few annoying traits, but you can just turn them off.

The PaperClip from MS-Office was a bad idea, but the majority of us just turned it off and got on with our lives.

There's better things to bytch about besides how the world's leading software producer doesn't fully fit with 100% of every computer it touches (as if any software does).
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Old 09-21-2004, 05:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Shoobie I see your point but some of the components sp2 comes with are ridiculous like that annoying window that pops up every time you boot that tells you that your firewall is turned off or that you don't have antivirus stuff installed(which I did) and then tells you to go buy norton and then a 2 dollar a month subscription. On my bros comp I installed it and restarted like it said but when it turned back on it just gets to the loading screen and restarts again, and again, and again. Maybe like you said, a driver isn't supported (probably hdd). I never have any problems with multiple distrobutions of Linux... I just don't understand why a college student can write a more stable/problem free os than a multi-million dollar corporate company like Microsoft can. Can you answer that?
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Old 09-22-2004, 08:53 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
like that annoying window that pops up every time you boot that tells you that your firewall is turned off
Turn the firewall on. It's good. Turn the virus protection off if you have another program. We use Norton CE, and turned off SP2's virus scanning to our own processes.
Quote:
On my bros comp I installed it and restarted like it said but when it turned back on it just gets to the loading screen and restarts again, and again, and again. Maybe like you said, a driver isn't supported (probably hdd).
Must've got messed up during the upgrade. We encountered this on two machines, but a reinstall fixed it without further problems. Probably due to lag on the Microsoft servers due to all the downloadings.
Quote:
I just don't understand why a college student can write a more stable/problem free os than a multi-million dollar corporate company like Microsoft can. Can you answer that?
Sure.

First: When Linux runs 90+% of the world's computers, we can discuss the feasability of 100% computer compatability and broad-spectrum distributions.

Second: If every time Microsoft put out an update to their OS, the millions of corporate users who download and use it had the problems you have, Microsoft would be toast. I come in contact with people from several LARGE corporations every day, and since updating they have had only minor, obscure problems at worst. Lockheed, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, are running SP2, and they ain't the only ones. The majority of Microsoft's clients are companies anyway, not personal users.

Three: The label for Microsoft users is "Everyone" from the techie to the CD-ROM-Cupholder Users, while the label for Linux users is "People who generally know enough about their computer to 1-know about linux, 2-run and use linux."

I'll admit MS does some stupid shyt from time to time, but get over it. I mean, in SP2 they disabled the right-click "Set as Desktop Background" option, and I'd REALLy like to know which programmer meeting it was where they said "Gee, this option needs to go because..." But seriously, it's not going to make me ditch Windows. Especially since I can turn it back on. The whole firewall and antivirus stuff is cool, but can be a hassel if you don't spend a little time with it. You can't expect it to work out-of-box 100% the way you want it to. (Psst...Linux doesn't work 100% the way you want it to out-of-box either.)

It's time to stop and go "Hey...Why did this not work?" and engage support/manuals/forums/readmes, rather than just going "What the hell? Fycking MS!!! Never works! I'm running away."
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Old 09-22-2004, 10:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
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You are indeed correct on almost every point regarding the correct installation of Windows XP Service Pack 2. Of course you should read the documentation beforehand. Of course you should have backed up everything and put in place a recovery procedure. Any user worth his or her salt ought to be able to save their current setup before attempting an update, right? I have know doubt that a computer professional such as yourself finds SP2 a godsend. However, it is my understanding (correct me if I’m wrong) that this forum is aimed at the average computer user in need of help for their home personal computer system, not the corporate system administrator or power user. SP2 has a long way to go to satisfy these users, who are every bit as entitled to the (as I said initially, arguable) benefits of an upgrade.

I will address the Linux/Windows issue tomorrow
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Old 09-22-2004, 11:10 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I run SP2 on my home machines, which I use for all ranges of activities, from gaming to web editing to CADing to programming, etc etc. I got the home perspective and the corporate perspective. As long as you make sure you're arse is covered and yer ducks are lined up, yer gonna sail smoothly. You don't have to be an uber-techie to do that, nor do you have to be an uber-techie to have success with SP2. My mother (for god sake) installed SP2 herself...
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Old 09-23-2004, 03:31 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Let me try to put it to you in simpler terms Shoobie, since you are obviously missing the point. How much space do you think this site alone has given up over the past several months to air the frustrations of simple folk experiencing genuine difficulty with SP2. I myself am just a simple Electronics Engineer with only 20 years of hardware and software design experience. Like yourself there is very little, hardware or software wise, that I can't resolve (apart from the RealPlayer icon problem). True, as we evolve the SP2 saga will become insignificant in the overall scheme of things. I still maintain though that, for the moment, the less computer literate amongst us should steer clear of it. Dig?
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Old 09-23-2004, 10:11 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Let me try to put it to you in simpler terms Shoobie, since you are obviously missing the point.
I think you're missing my point, but go ahead...

How much space do you think this site alone has given up over the past several months to air the frustrations of simple folk experiencing genuine difficulty with SP2.
Discluding the chicken-littles and generic MS bashers...? Eh, a lot. But I didn't know it was so astounding to other people that the world's leading OS manufacturer's software release would be such big news...

I myself am just a simple Electronics Engineer with only 20 years of hardware and software design experience.
Good for you. Can you make coffee too?

Like yourself there is very little, hardware or software wise, that I can't resolve (apart from the RealPlayer icon problem).
RealPlayer (RealOne/RealNetworks) has solvable problems? jk

True, as we evolve the SP2 saga will become insignificant in the overall scheme of things. I still maintain though that, for the moment, the less computer literate amongst us should steer clear of it.
If you read my posts, you'll notice I state many times that getting SP2 to work does not require mass amounts of knowlege or skills. All the needed info for solving problems (that aren't identified as unsolved-bugs) is available (and not just from MS).

Actually, my real snit on this is the fact that people run into problems and automatically just start cussing and bashing Microsoft. This is not only juvenile, but is 80+% unwarranted and stereotypical. MS actually does have VERY good programmers, and they actually DO sell a VERY good suite of programs and OS's (discounting ME ).

I'll agree with you that their licensing department is codenamed "ODESSA" and that they often take "user-friendly" too far. Still, you can't blame them for being hard on the licensing, and all the user-friendly annoyances can be turned off easily.

I also think I noted somewhere that MS is focussed mainly on corporate users, not personal home boxes. So don't go blaming MS for not paying as much attention to home PC setups as they do their real money-making customers.

Lastly, I'll let you read through the partner release: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/p...PSP2Quotes.asp

Dig?
Dug.
DigDug.
...Christ! That game's still around???
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Old 09-23-2004, 10:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Well said Shoobie
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