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Old 10-25-2004, 05:44 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Okay. I'm not going to state my full opinion here, but I would like to make a couple of points.

A few people (who will remain unnamed) have mentioned Microsoft's innovation. I wholeheartedly disagree with this. Now, Microsoft probably has one of the best, or if not the best, at least one of the most successful, business models in existance. Their marketing has clearly worked to an ideal. At this point they are so powerful that they can do virtually anything and get away with it. It is hard to deny Bill Gates' brilliance. However, I do not see anywhere they innovate. Near to none of their "ideas" are original. They are all "borrowed" from somewhere. This pattern has defined a large part of Microsoft's history. Examples of companies that have truly innovated include Apple and IBM. Not Microsoft.

Additionally, it is of my opinion that most people who say that Microsoft products are easier to use then other available OSes have not tried Mac OS X Panther. Those who have often have not spent much time on it...enough to rid themselves of certain Windows habits that would make the OS unfamiliar and leave a harder-to-use impression that wouldn't otherwise exist. If cost weren't an issue (and it is for most people) one could follow the route of Anand Lal Shimpi (of anandtech.com) and spend a month with a mac...a modern high end one at that, trying to do it as impartially and as unbiased as possible.

On the Open Source topic, Linux is beginning to dominate in certain areas. Particularly major servers used by governments and large corporations. They still aren't widely used in the desktop market (though I'm typing this from Linux right now), but Microsoft does clearly see them as a threat. One can see this by the amount of advertising there has been in the last year or so for Server 2003 and why companies should use it instead of Linux. Cost and reliability are two of the biggest reasons for the Linux switching trend in these areas.
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Old 10-26-2004, 03:57 AM   #62 (permalink)
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I've used OS X, I like it better than Windows
when I used it, it was much more stable, and I found it quite a lot easier to get used to than Windows or Linux - I have used Linux too
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Old 10-26-2004, 10:46 AM   #63 (permalink)
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A few people (who will remain unnamed) have mentioned Microsoft's innovation. I wholeheartedly disagree with this. Now, Microsoft probably has one of the best, or if not the best, at least one of the most successful, business models in existance. Their marketing has clearly worked to an ideal. At this point they are so powerful that they can do virtually anything and get away with it. It is hard to deny Bill Gates' brilliance. However, I do not see anywhere they innovate. Near to none of their "ideas" are original. They are all "borrowed" from somewhere. This pattern has defined a large part of Microsoft's history. Examples of companies that have truly innovated include Apple and IBM. Not Microsoft.
First, don't skirt around me. If you're quoting me, quote me. I'm not that anal.

While I will admit that Microsoft is the ultimate assimilator of technology, once they find something neat, they expand on it. It is true that many of the technologies and ideas Microsoft has came from sources it bought up, but those technologies and ideas are highly developed and modified beyond how they found them. In recent times, the lengths at which they have expanded the .NET environment, the Exchange Server technology, ODBC integration tools, etc, has skyrocketed. It's hard for me to find a company that isn't thinking about, working on, or has already switched their code to .NET. The innovation comes from finding gold and knowing how to make it better, how to make it fit in with the users, and where to go with it next.

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Additionally, it is of my opinion that most people who say that Microsoft products are easier to use then other available OSes have not tried Mac OS X Panther. Those who have often have not spent much time on it...enough to rid themselves of certain Windows habits that would make the OS unfamiliar and leave a harder-to-use impression that wouldn't otherwise exist. If cost weren't an issue (and it is for most people) one could follow the route of Anand Lal Shimpi (of anandtech.com) and spend a month with a mac...a modern high end one at that, trying to do it as impartially and as unbiased as possible.
I won't deny that Apple has made incredible leaps recently. They're still having some problems with non-interface issues, though, but you're right, they're certainly user friendly. As for the other OS options out there, they're starting to show signs of getting the point...but not fully yet. (I would like to point out the growing number of alternate OS's that are being used only if they have interfaces that emulate or duplicate the Windows environment.)

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On the Open Source topic, Linux is beginning to dominate in certain areas. Particularly major servers used by governments and large corporations. They still aren't widely used in the desktop market (though I'm typing this from Linux right now), but Microsoft does clearly see them as a threat. One can see this by the amount of advertising there has been in the last year or so for Server 2003 and why companies should use it instead of Linux. Cost and reliability are two of the biggest reasons for the Linux switching trend in these areas.
There's a couple reasons why Unix/Linux have a strong server hold. One, they can be stripped down so far that they're running off of text-file scripts and little else, making them simplistic and small. (Getting them to be robust server interfaces with powerful and interactive server-management tools, though, is more difficult.) Two, servers used to be pretty much completely dominated by Unix and its predicessors, which has left the server-realm with a large number of old-school folks.

For the record, I grew up on Apples, DOS systems, and the whole Unix world thing. I periodically try new versions of other OS's, but still the only other OS I can stand using is the new Mac OS. Everything else just can't hold its own well enough, imop.
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Old 10-26-2004, 06:08 PM   #64 (permalink)
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First, don't skirt around me. If you're quoting me, quote me. I'm not that anal.
My appologies.

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The innovation comes from finding gold and knowing how to make it better, how to make it fit in with the users, and where to go with it next.
Any other examples? (Windows is, in my humble opinion, NOT a good one). By the way, that statement really did sound like an endorsement...

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(I would like to point out the growing number of alternate OS's that are being used only if they have interfaces that emulate or duplicate the Windows environment.)
When you say that, you aren't including Mac OS, right? Because in reality, many aspects of the Windows interface was originally dirived from there in the first place. You say many have interfaces that emulate or duplicate Windows, but since the beginning, Windows has borrowed features of other OSes (often Mac OS)...then again, the credit for the GUI does go to Xerox in the end. They had absolutely no idea what they were doing to themselves when they gave up THAT market...wow...it's rather sad actually...

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They're still having some problems with non-interface issues, though, but you're right, they're certainly user friendly.
What sort of non-interface issues? (Aside from marketing...)
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Old 10-26-2004, 06:27 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Oh God, Geoworks brings up some memories. I remember the very first pc I had have gotten, was rented from rent-a-center and had Geoworks on it. After I started playing with it at home I realized that windows 3.1 was much more superior and took it back. I would have just formated the hard drive and installed windows but i was not allowed to stated by contract. Anyways Dos was my first OS.
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Old 10-27-2004, 07:20 AM   #66 (permalink)
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hmmmm thats gr8 to hear
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Old 10-27-2004, 11:52 AM   #67 (permalink)
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Any other examples?
Since we're talking about Windows...no.

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When you say that, you aren't including Mac OS, right?
No, I wasn't. I didn't do a very good job of making it clear I was seperating Mac out from the others...but I also didn't intend to include it because I know where Windows got its origins.

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Because in reality, many aspects of the Windows interface was originally dirived from there in the first place. You say many have interfaces that emulate or duplicate Windows, but since the beginning, Windows has borrowed features of other OSes (often Mac OS)...
I think we should avoid tunneling back into the deep past to see where everything spawned from. We all know Windows came from the origins of Mac. Everything came from some point and was developed upon over the years. It's kinda like saying that "no-one should drive a Mercades, because Nicolas Cugnot made the first car in 1725 and Mercades is just a copy." And let's not forget that Leonardo da Vinci made the designs for a car, that Cugnot copied and built. Cugnot is credited with having the first car, despite the idea and design not being his.

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then again, the credit for the GUI does go to Xerox in the end. They had absolutely no idea what they were doing to themselves when they gave up THAT market...wow...it's rather sad actually...
Microsoft isn't the only company that follows the philosophy of searching for innovation, acquiring, and devloping. Other notable companies (which should be on the "evil" list based on some user responses in this forum) include BASF, Lucent, Dupont, Northrop-Grumman, Lockheed Martin, and just about every major car manufacturer out there, to name a few.

Your smoke-alarm in your house is a direct-descendant from the original smoke-alarm developed by NASA. When you pop the cover off your smoke-alarm, I'll bet it doesn't say "Copyright NASA" on the inside. NASA developed the idea, but someone in the public industry ran with it...and now look what you got.

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What sort of non-interface issues? (Aside from marketing...)
We can all safely agree that the interfaces are different, and for some, switching can be difficult if you're not computer-literate or savvy.

What I meant was that there are some compatability concerns, the lack of wide-spread support for proprietary products, and the lack of support or substitute for many corporate/business process solutions and workflow systems.
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Old 10-28-2004, 01:35 PM   #68 (permalink)
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people have gotten very Hot in here Chill guys

Microsoft is successfull bcoz v r their customers

**If the buying stops the Production will Also stop**
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Old 10-28-2004, 01:58 PM   #69 (permalink)
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again...

Give us a good enough reason to, and we'll stop buying.

Otherwise, stop whining at us.
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Old 10-28-2004, 02:00 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Well No one asks me to give a reason for my opinion
Go Get a life
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