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Old 04-04-2006, 11:19 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Cunjo
the Windows Defender name now belongs to Microsoft.

Last I heard, Microsoft shut them down and took the name for their own product line.

EDIT: Yes, I am referring to a different "Windows Defender," which had been a good program at one point before Microsoft shut down the nonprofit developer with lawsuit threats over the name. I won't use Microsoft's version for the obvious reasons.
But the Windows Defender you are refering to also hasnt been updated in almost 10 years. I remember reading that article and even the guy who created it said that he didnt use that app anymore nor did he do anything with it for 10 years.

Yes M$ threatened with lawsuits but the guy would have givin up the Windows Defender name even if thye had just asked.

The best IMO is Windows Defender and Spybot.
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Old 04-04-2006, 11:32 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I simply refuse to trust anything made (or bought and marketed) by Microsoft with the security of my computer, and nothing is going to change my position on that AT LEAST until they fix their own damned buggy, insecure OS and browser.
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Old 04-04-2006, 11:54 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Well you know what Cunjo....When Apple/Mac and Linux get attacked and used as widely as Windows. I will agree. When you have almost 90% of the OS market and 85% of the browser market lets see if your OS would be secure. Plain and simple end of story. Dont like it dont use it. Considering that Unix and Linux based systems had more flaws found int them than Windows last year.
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Old 04-04-2006, 02:40 PM   #24 (permalink)
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well homogeneity is a major part of the problem - there's no denying that, but consider the development Microsoft has done on IE lately - none.

IE is a notoriously insecure browser, yet aside from the constant flow of patches, Microsoft hasn't released a new version since 2001! It still remains to be seen if MS will release IE7 before Vista, and I know I won't be contributing to their market share when that happens.

Now compare that to the ongoing development and improvements of other third-party browsers. The vast majority are far better than IE in terms of unpatched or potentially dangerous vulnerabilities. Firefox is better than IE in every imagineable way, security not being the least of those.

As for Mac, even considering their market share, they're far less vulnerable to attack than Windows (and not just because fewer people have cause to attack them). The linux distros will always be ahead in terms of heterogeneity, which -does- make them superior in terms of security in spite of any shortcomings they may have, although it can still be argued that the inherent flaws in Linux are far less dangerous due to the foundation of the system.
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Old 04-04-2006, 03:31 PM   #25 (permalink)
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But consider the development Microsoft has done on IE lately - none.

Firefox is better than IE in every imagineable way, security not being the least of those.

As for Mac, even considering their market share, they're far less vulnerable to attack than Windows (and not just because fewer people have cause to attack them). The linux distros will always be ahead in terms of heterogeneity, which -does- make them superior in terms of security in spite of any shortcomings they may have, although it can still be argued that the inherent flaws in Linux are far less dangerous due to the foundation of the system.
Okay your right here. IE hasnt changed. But they have made imporvements with IE7.

Firfox is more secure than IE, but Opera is more secure than Firefox. Plus Opera had Tabbed browsing before the Fox did. The Fox just made it more mainstream.

Macs are less prone to attacks but considering Vista is based off of the Server 2003 core which has yet ot have a Vunerability found in it that doesnt affect Every version of Windows. I think they have a good head start. Plus with the UAP not allowing apps to be installed without permission i think they have gotten themselves to where Macs are at.

As for Linux well unless you are really good with PC's you cant even get them to run right. I have only found 2 Distros that even Recognize my SATA HDD's along with all my other hardware. Linux is not for your average everyday user.
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Old 04-05-2006, 01:43 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Makaveli213
Okay your right here. IE hasnt changed. But they have made imporvements with IE7.

Firfox is more secure than IE, but Opera is more secure than Firefox. Plus Opera had Tabbed browsing before the Fox did. The Fox just made it more mainstream.

Macs are less prone to attacks but considering Vista is based off of the Server 2003 core which has yet ot have a Vunerability found in it that doesnt affect Every version of Windows. I think they have a good head start. Plus with the UAP not allowing apps to be installed without permission i think they have gotten themselves to where Macs are at.

As for Linux well unless you are really good with PC's you cant even get them to run right. I have only found 2 Distros that even Recognize my SATA HDD's along with all my other hardware. Linux is not for your average everyday user.
One must also recall the general uselessness of the improvements they have made to many programs in the past. While one can assume that IE7 will be far better than IE6, we have yet to see how much or in what areas. On the most basic level, IE is inherently vulnerable due to it's extremely close ties with the Operating System itself, so unless they change that, I don't imagine it will be long before dangerous vulnerabilities are discovered in IE7 as well.

Yes, Open Source will do that... if Opera had been free or open source without ads, then it may very well have been the pioneer of tabbed-browsing market penetration. I haven't used Opera personally, and while I agree that Firefox does still have some insecurities in vanilla, with the right extensions it can in all likelihood be every bit as secure as anything else available.

That brings up another good question by the way, relating to exactly who controls what you can install on your computer. I know that Microsoft was working on hardware-level control over licensing and authentication, which could be a very, very bad thing should they try and form a trust with mainstream software developers (i.e., if you don't/can't pay the 'Software Industry' (Microsoft Trust) to approve/license your software, people can't run it on their machines)

I completely agree with your statement regarding Linux - it's very well known as a highly involved system, and you need a lot of experience in modifying software on the programming-language or even binary level before you can really make the best of it. Distro selection is paramount in choosing a system for anyone other than a computer engineer, and it's not made any easier by the fact that documentation on exactly what a distro supports or includes is typically atrocious.
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Old 04-05-2006, 01:56 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Cunjo
One must also recall the general uselessness of the improvements they have made to many programs in the past. While one can assume that IE7 will be far better than IE6, we have yet to see how much or in what areas. On the most basic level, IE is inherently vulnerable due to it's extremely close ties with the Operating System itself, so unless they change that, I don't imagine it will be long before dangerous vulnerabilities are discovered in IE7 as well.

Yes, Open Source will do that... if Opera had been free or open source without ads, then it may very well have been the pioneer of tabbed-browsing market penetration.

That brings up another good question by the way, relating to exactly who controls what you can install on your computer. I know that Microsoft was working on hardware-level control over licensing and authentication, which could be a very, very bad thing should they try and form a trust with mainstream software developers (i.e., if you don't/can't pay the 'Software Industry' (Microsoft Trust) to approve/license your software, people can't run it on their machines)

I completely agree with your statement regarding Linux - it's very well known as a highly involved system, and you need a lot of experience in modifying software on the programming-language or even binary level before you can really make the best of it. Distro selection is paramount in choosing a system for anyone other than a computer engineer, and it's not made any easier by the fact that documentation on exactly what a distro supports or includes is typically atrocious.
Well we are both hitting on some good points. But the truth is that IE7 does make alot of changes to the borwser. They have a free Beta download that you can try it out yourself and see what a difference they ahve made. It isnt that great mind you but it is a improvement than IE6. Plus M$ has announced (As Warez Monster pointed out) that IE7 will not be bundled with Vista nor SP3 for XP.

Opera is still be far my favorite. I am testing the Beta for Opera 9 and download the new weekly builds every Wed and Fri and install them. Most of my other forums i have links to Opera in the Signature to draw attention to it.

As for Linux well.....I cant say that i am all against it. I have used Knoppix for some fixing up of XP that i had to do before. Their Live CD's are the best. But for a OS i cant say that they are great. No game support, even with Wine's limited capabilties. Difficulties with hardware. Just so much to know and learn before you can use it. All valid points. Hence why Windows has become the standard. Ease of use, with a small learning curve.
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Old 04-05-2006, 09:39 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Makaveli213
Well we are both hitting on some good points. But the truth is that IE7 does make alot of changes to the borwser. They have a free Beta download that you can try it out yourself and see what a difference they ahve made. It isnt that great mind you but it is a improvement than IE6. Plus M$ has announced (As Warez Monster pointed out) that IE7 will not be bundled with Vista nor SP3 for XP.

Opera is still be far my favorite. I am testing the Beta for Opera 9 and download the new weekly builds every Wed and Fri and install them. Most of my other forums i have links to Opera in the Signature to draw attention to it.

As for Linux well.....I cant say that i am all against it. I have used Knoppix for some fixing up of XP that i had to do before. Their Live CD's are the best. But for a OS i cant say that they are great. No game support, even with Wine's limited capabilties. Difficulties with hardware. Just so much to know and learn before you can use it. All valid points. Hence why Windows has become the standard. Ease of use, with a small learning curve.
I can agree with most of that... as for them not bundling it with SP3, that's definately a good thing in my case, since I can't even update to SP2 without crashing my computer =P (tried three times on this laptop model, and twice on this very machine... each time the system suffered a terminal failure and had to be either reverted or reinstalled... It couldn't possibly be Microsoft's fault that their new software crashes on my computer... Microsoft software has no bugs.)

I may check it out sometime when I have more time, but I'm perfectly content with what Firefox offers.

Knoppix is definately one of those Linux distros that just about every intelligent user should keep around. I use it frequently when I need a clean, secure terminal on a badly infected windows machine, or as an emergency access disk for just about any occasion on which Windows won't boot. Almost all bootable CD/DVD linux distros are an indispensable tool. I personally keep a Linux distro permanently installed on a second partition so I can choose my OS on boot, which is also very handy - best of both worlds in a way...

As for games on Linux, since you mentioned it, ironically, the only game I'll ever need to play was designed to work cross-platform on all three systems - Windows, Macintosh and Linux/Unix. It's true that WINE is still a developing emulator, and that many if not most Windows-designed games won' run reliably on it, but that isn't to say that there aren't any good ones - just that they're not mainstream like everything else (by definition, the games made for Windows are mainstream - anything else doesn't get high exposure or media hype). Of all the games I've played, my favorites have been VO - fully cross-platform, and EV - originally written for Macintosh, but finally ported to Windows after the third installment.

Quote:
Annihilat0r: Vendetta is scratchware..
Annihilat0r: well, almost
StraightJacket: lol
StraightJacket: aye nearly
Annihilat0r: it amounts to leik, 4 geeks with no lives or day jobs...
Annihilat0r: WoW amounts to ~14,000 programmers, developers, marketing personnel and the Blizzard Entertainment label
Annihilat0r: yet WoW sucks... and VO owns
StraightJacket: proves you cant buy class
Annihilat0r: indeed
Windows became the standard because of marketing. Both Microsoft's success and Apple's failure contributed to the outcome - if the emerging systems had originally been marketed differently, then Macintosh may very well have become the standard, as it would have if success could only be attributed to ease of use. In the end, it was Apple's failure to recognize the benefits and potential of giving third party developers more freedom to modify their system until it was too late that led to their downfall.
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