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Old 06-10-2005, 03:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation X800 series - classic case of TF 'group think'?

I know a lot of u fellas always recommend the 6800 GT over the X800 XL for example.. My question to u is, how many of you guys have actually "seen" both of these cards in action.. I know guys like Beedubaya must have since he's had a tough time with his X800 pro card.

But it seems like almost "everyone" ALWAYS says, get the 6800 GT quite passionately.. But, have u guys actually "seen" both cards in action too see if the 3.0 features are very significant?.. or is this a classic case of Tech Forum "group think"?..

One guy with a [high post count/good reputation] says something, and everyone else jump on the band wagon and follows .. There have been other instances of this as well.. But no point in going into all those.

I've always been opinionless when it came to the subject of video cards.. Other than maybe saying the 6600 GT is a great bang for the buck..

Anyways post away.. This was not meant to be an insult or anything of that sort.. I was just curious..
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Old 06-10-2005, 03:49 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You dont need to own the cards

We know which ones peform better (benchmarks)

Us Nvidia folk can just turn off Shader Model 3 and crap

And reliability is brand dependant
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Old 06-10-2005, 03:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I think most opinions are based on some of the facts, at least from what I have read. Although they could be just repeating them vebatum. Benchmarks and such can be wrong too and even with the best of intentions the hype always manages to win.

I am with you on this one, unless I get to SEE them and choose for myself the opions here get taken with a grain of salt.
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Old 06-10-2005, 03:55 PM   #4 (permalink)
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to Chris's post:

True.. But when u turn Shader Model 3 off, does it default to Shader Model 2?.. My guess is that it just turns the shading "completely off" altogether. Which is obviously quite poor and is not indicative of SM2 at all. Correct me if I am wrong.

As for benchmarks. yeah.. That's pretty obvious when someone like Toms of Anand does a bench and post the results. But that's not the "reason" given by most people when they recommend the 6800 Gt for example over the X850 even. They only talk about the 3.0..
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Old 06-10-2005, 03:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Just look at the comparison screenshots for Splinter Cell: Chaos Thoery, and you'll see the quite astonishing impact that Shader Model 3 has. Also, Shader Model 3 will be required to use HDR lighting on the new HL2 - "Lost Coast" mod that is being publically drooled over. If ATI had included Shader Model 3 in its X800 series, it would be just as good, if not better than the 6800 series. However, SM3 is vital to image quality and performance in future games. Therefore, the crown undebatably goes to the 6800 GT.

*EDIT* When you turn of Shader Model 3, it DOES NOT default to Shader Model 2. It defaults to DX8.1 Shader Model 1.1 paths, which is quite a downgrade in image quality. The picture would be different if devs would include SM2.0b paths in games instead of skipping directly from SM1.1 to SM3.
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Old 06-10-2005, 04:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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That maybe man. But its not easy to get a true appreciation for the differences from "still" images.. It does not show the dynamic changes. You'll see some differences, but how it plays out in terms of game play, I am presuming, is not too easy to deduce.. Obviously, SM3 is better. But to the same level that people make it out to be?.

I am not questioning the people that have actually seen both cards in action. As I've said, I haven't, and thus I am opinionless on this matter.

I asked my question, b/c I just wanted to know "why" people were saying that. Whether they've seen it for themselves, or they are just "repeating" others without knowing for themselves.. As daappleby, "hype" is an amazing thing ..
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Old 06-10-2005, 04:04 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The question is, why buy a card that does not have Shader Model 3.0 features when you can get one for the same price that has similar performance, excels in OpenGL, AND includes SM3.0 support?
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Old 06-10-2005, 04:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I say a group think becasue it is so well known that it is going to be a Nvidia becasue someone said that to them when they were just beginning and just got into a habit of saying ooo yeah Nvidia series is better. Also if ATi made its prices cheaper then yes some might chost ATni over Nvidia but they are not.
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Old 06-10-2005, 04:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by beedubaya
The question is, why buy a card that does not have Shader Model 3.0 features when you can get one for the same price that has similar performance, excels in OpenGL, AND includes SM3.0 support?
If they are the same price, there is no reason.. ..

But, what I was getting at was, people usually just say "no SM3" = "end of the world".. Even if they don't know for sure themselves.. Everyone has opinions.. And I will certainly consider "your" opinion (Beedub) when I consider a card - b/c u've seen their differences first hand I am presuming. But then I dont want Person 2,3,and 4 telling me the same thing just based on "your" opinion as well. Then instead of 1 point against X800, I have 4 points against X800 - which is not justified.. This is one of the effects of group think.

Even if someone finds a X800XT series card for cheaper (which I've seen sometimes), they'll be **** scared to even consider it..

It just seems like some posters just suggest the "same" thing regardless of the situation - without necessarily knowing themselves what the actual reasons are.. I remember one post recently, some dude was asking for a machine to do some coding and some word processing. And someone says "yes.. must get a 6600 GT"..

I think its great to point out things to be aware of. b/c the most knowledgable person on a particular subject matter might not be on all the time. But repeating something you've read somewhere as your own "opinion" is not very good I think..
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Old 06-10-2005, 04:27 PM   #10 (permalink)
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is the shader issue caused by the chipset or sofware? I am still new to this whole argument and want to know more about it.
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