Video Card Dilemma (need a very high performance card: 6800 gt-sli/ultra? x850 xt?)

[Calzinger]

Ah, I see. So essentially its somewhat a waste of money to get pc4400. But if I overclock the board to higher speeds, then the memory can act higher as well, correct?

@nubios
As far as GPUs, can you give me your opinion on SLI at the current stage compared to what ATI currently has out and what looks to be coming?

 

[DJ-CHRIS]

We know his opinion on SLI, he hates it

But later on when you want that 30-40% peformance boost you can pickup a second 6800GT, probolly a used one for 100$

 

[Calzinger]

See, that would make more sense to me. When new GPUs come out and when the current ones become cheap, it would make more sense to buy an additional card for cheap and utilize my current card rather than to basically throw it away for a new card. I would end up spending more and throwing away what was previously bought. Selling becomes an option I suppose.

 

[Nubius]

Ah, I see. So essentially its somewhat a waste of money to get pc4400. But if I overclock the board to higher speeds, then the memory can act higher as well, correct?

Well...yes and no towards the waste of money. A good 1gb of some memory like.

G.Skill LAs
OCZ Platinum Rev 2s
PQI Turbos
Patriot XBLX

(first two on the list are pretty much the best)

Those can OC to 275MHz+ or DDR550 if you know what you're doing. Basically takes upping the voltage and just loosening timings a bit. That G.Skill LA I believe is rated at 275MHz(DDR550) at 2.5-3-3-7 timings, pop the voltage up to 2.9v and then slowly get your CPU up to that speed and you got a champ system...of course on the AMD64 you'd have to lower the HTT Link speed from 5x to 4x or possibly even 3x because you don't want to OC the overall bus on those boards beyond 2000 or 1600 depending on your board.

As far as SLI goes, chris is pretty much right

I think it's a stupid way for nvidia to go (and I do prefer nvidia I'm not gonna lie there, so I'm not saying this from an ATI's fan view or something)

SLI currently can be very buggy, and of course not all games support it, so unless you love to play 3dmark05 it can turn out to be a waste if you're playing a game that'll only use one card anyway.

Of course no doubt more support will come as it ages, but as of right now I think this 2 card solution is just crap.

As far as I'm aware, ATI's X850XTPE is basically the best card on the market, how it differes from say an X850XT someone like dale could probably tell you. Those cards, however, are basically beefed up X800's I believe so it is correct in saying that they basically wont' want to OC at all.

A good 6800GT should be able to OC to and possibly beyond Ultra speeds with it's stock heatsink, so if you were to get a better heatsink, or even water cooling, you should be able to make it a nice and powerful card, but again I honestly don't know how it would compare to say an X850XT

I believe that ATI's cards will suck horribly in games like Doom3 that uses openGL and of course will excel in HL2 that uses DX (someone let me know if I got that backwards lol)

The thing about nvidias flagship cards is that, it excels in doom3 of course, like ATI's do in HL2, but unlike the ATI's the nvidia can still play HL2 with great ease even though it's meant for ATI....for whatever reason ATI can't do that in doom3, they take a nose dive in performance....but of course those are just the current best games next to far cry, and more will be coming out so it's just a matter of time before those points become useless...

Main point is ATI sucks at openGL worse than nvidia sucks at DX.....

Finding a use 6800GT for $100 I'd say is probably an unrealistic option. Doubt anyone would sell it that low.

I'd say for all around compatibility and not having to worry about bugs for the most part, go with the ATI flagship, OR wait a little bit longer because they will be releasing their 24 pipeline "32 effective" 512mb monster, and as of yet I haven't heard any news as to what nvidia plans to do in terms of retaliation...perhaps they are cooking up something, perhaps they are still working on more SLI, not sure.

Honestly it's a really tough call. I would personally probably choose the ATI flagship over SLI

So SLI might get 150FPS instead of 140FPS.....human eye doesn't notice beyond around 40 anyway.

lol so yeah that probably turned out to be a useless rant haha, but, it's a really tough call, but I just really don't like SLI

 

[Calzinger]

You make a good point regarding ATI & DirectX VS nVidia & OpenGL. ATI really suffers in OpenGL games while nVidia has lesser performance but still fair in DirectX games. In that case, wouldn't it be fair to say that given the prices and overclocking capabilities, the 6800 GT has the better value?

I'm looking at SLI as more of a future option rather than getting two cards straight off the box. Again, utilizing my first card is much more efficient than scrapping it to buy a full-size full-ridiculousness card. Do you think an SLI system can compete with what ATI will have to offer in the future given that nVidia has the time to revise and correct the bugs of SLI? Or is it too early to even tell?

Can we compare the 6800 GT to the x850 XT? Obviously the x850 XT has greater performance over the 6800 GT as stated so many times before, but incorporating the price, is the x850 XT's performance advantage actually worth $120 or even more?

 

[DJ-CHRIS]

I can notice a difference between 40 and 65 fps that's a true lie, a very debated fact as well. It's very complex and if we want to debate this, us not being medical experts we wont even understand it.

And SLI is more than that much of a difference.

And 100-150$ for a 6800GT used will be completly resonable when a "7800 GT" comes out

 

[Nubius]

I'd say it's too early to tell. That new R520 core from ATI will be monsterous no doubt. 512mb of memory 24 pipelines but they arent 'normal pipelines' so it'll act more like 32 compared to a 6800 series card has 16.

Getting a 6800GT now and when prices drop, get another is indeed a fairly good option, but I suppose you gotta hope that nvidia keeps progressing with it and smoothes it out completely.

ATI themselves are making a SLI type board in the future, of course theres is called like MVP (Multi Visual Processing I believe it is, something along those lines)

As far as comparing the price and whether or not it's justified is hard to say. Like I said the eVGA 6800GT's especially are known to OC like beasts so that'd close the gap even further between that card and the X850XT at which point the extra cash probably wouldn't justify the little performance. Normally you'd think "well the other can OC too" but as we know it's a maxed out X800 pretty much so theres not a lot to OC.

Basically you gotta hope though that all the future games that come out will be SLI capable, no doubt it'll be mainly big name games, so if that's the case, then for your scenario it probably would be worth getting a single 6800GT now, OC'ing it to high hell, and then when prices come down (but realize, god knows how long that'll take) you can add another 6800GT....

but that 6800GT will last atleast 2 years anyway, so 2 years from now, pop in another 6800GT which it probably WILL be at around $150 and you've increased performance by quite a bit assuming SLI is around and thriving.

EDIT:

I can notice a difference between 40 and 65 fps that's a true lie

lol a true lie....yeah I love it when people are all "I can tell the diff between 60 and 62 FPS"

Ok well go take that up with the guys who've studied human anatomy for their whole lives....they are wrong, yet you are right....BS I tell ya

 

[Calzinger]

Is the current SLI system that buggy? Despite its lack of wide support, the games that they do support are the ones that could take advantage of the dual system. I can't think of any other games not supported that couldn't run on a single 6800 or even 6600 GT.

Even with this new ATI beast that is coming in the near future, are there even any games that could abuse half of the power it has to offer?

But overall, do you see plenty of potential and value in the 6800 GT as a single card system? Or is the 6800 GT only good for SLI?

Judging by those benchmarks, the 6800 GT has been a top competitor with the x850 XT, even though losing out by a little, as a single card system. Since I will be waiting quite awhile to get an additional card for SLI, will the 6800 GT do good for itself as a single card until I can get another? Or am I basically getting a 6800 GT knowing that I have to get another one for SLI?

 

[dale5605]

I think the basic conclusion here is that you are getting a 5 - 10 fps performance increase for $120 more. That just doesn't seem straight out reasonable to me.

Let me start off by saying this. By the same token you could get an x800 xl because is it really worth 5 fps of difference between the x800 xl and 6800 gt to warrant the extra $100?
The point is I thought you were going for top of the line. You can keep stepping it back all you want. You are going to keep dropping in price and fps, you have to decide yourself what you want and at what price. I love the x800 xl and it's cheap as heck. It competes with the 6800 gt for $280.

Glad I changed your mind on the power supply, the powerstream if one of the highest rated for overclockers and the like.

Also I think it is pointless getting that high RAM and then having to overclock to catch up to it. I mean if you are going to overclock the CPU then you might as well be overclocking the RAM too. I mean you are overclocking your whole system basically (vid card, CPU, mobo.) and yet you are just going to have the RAM running at stock speed? Doesn't seem very cost effective my friend.

Also have you considered my hard drive proposal?

Lastly, you are assuming SLI will be a good deal if in fact it will keep up with the next cards. But the fact is I don't think it will. The x850 xt can already beat 2 6800 gt's in SLI on games like half life. And it doesn't get beaten at doom 3 nearly as bad as previous ATI cards. I'm thinking that 2 6800gt's won't stand a chance against the next line of cards. Therefore it doesn't seem like a good plan to me. Sure the price of the card will drop, but you will still be paying for the whole card for only a small increase compared to one 6800 gt. Much better to just keep 1 card and then sell it while it is still a mid ranger at least and then spend a little more to buy the new line of card.

Also listen to nubius, he is the smartest person on these forums.

 

[Calzinger]

The 6800 GT seems to have more popularity, but of course that is no way to make a decision. Given the 6800 GT's overclocking capabilities and SLI potential, I see this card as being an outstanding single card solution and having great potential in the future for SLI since it would only cost under $200 to nearly double its performance. I see myself throwing away the x800 XL after some time from lack of potential. Don't get me wrong, it is indeed a great card but I just don't see the potential given what ATI is bringing and the whole "SLI" plan many seem to be going for.

Cost effective? Getting this high ram again is considered an investment. There is not much sense in buying for instance a $120 set of 3200 ram now and then throwing it for 4400 when I need to get a whole overall on the system.

You claim that the x850 XT even has an edge over SLI, but honestly, it can't be a significant amount or anything that is even relevant. From what little we have seen so far, ATI's new lineup looks to definitely dominate nVidia's SLI at its current state. But also looking at the games and systems now, all of that power is useless and could end up wasting process time.
Please do try to read more into what I have been posting as you will find that "Lastly, you are assuming SLI will be a good deal" is false. If you read on, I did address the 6800 GT as a single card option, and it has done well for itself, outperforming the x800.

my main point
From an investment aspect, the x850 XT is what I will get to begin with and will remain that way. It will not get better given its limitted overclocking abilities. At least with the 6800 GT, I have the option to increase the performance with SLI if the single overclocked 6800 GT isn't enough, even though I highly doubt that the single card won't be enough.