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Old 10-13-2004, 02:30 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I meant censorship enforced by the goverment...
Only the government can enforce laws to protect national security.
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Go back to pilgrams and amish days...
If you think the pilgrams and amish didn't (and don't) have heavy censorship of their populations, you need to do some research.

I'll also point out, that if you lived in a truly governmentally-censored country...you wouldn't be posting this on this forum.
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Old 10-13-2004, 03:58 PM   #32 (permalink)
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"Only the government can enforce laws to protect national security."

Ya your right! BUT in your post before the last one you were talking about censorships made by private organizations.... there is a difference between a company enforcing a dress code and having the goverment enforce something.


"If you think the pilgrams and amish didn't (and don't) have heavy censorship of their populations, you need to do some research."

Im sure that they did have a lot of censorship and edicite to follow BUT it wasnt enforcecd by the goverment but by their peers


kinda cool how everyone was brainwasher (everyone , that means you and I, are brainwashed and that is good, not bad, thing) to be moral in those days by their religion (not goverrment!!!). Today we are taught (brainwashed) to be unmoral.... if you dont agree with that watch primetime tv
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Old 10-14-2004, 10:10 AM   #33 (permalink)
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there is a difference between a company enforcing a dress code and having the goverment enforce something.
-What if the demand to enforce the dress code becomes so great that the government must become involved?
-What if the censorship demanded requires a governmentally-controlled service\function to be altered?
-What if the people demand that the government keep tabs on private companies to prevent them from abusing censorship powers?

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it wasnt enforcecd by the goverment but by their peers
-It's still a form of government, regardless of scale.
-Congressmen, Senators, and the President, are elected by the public, therefore are public peers.
-Show me, anywhere in history, where a population of 310 million individuals, stretched over 3,537,441 square miles, governed themselves purely as a neighbor-to-neighbor society (310 million to 310 million).

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Today we are taught (brainwashed) to be unmoral.... if you dont agree with that watch primetime tv
-Don't know about you...but my parents taught me from the day I was born about good morals and ethics. What exactly is brainwashing you to be immoral?
-Knowing what is right and what is wrong, I still take solice in knowing that I can avoid unpleasant things through the use of technology, and that my government is making an effort to do the same.
-In fact, I would argue that society is becoming TOO pure. More and more I see parents sheltering their children too much from the realities and natures of the world. I'm definately not saying we should show children porn, but when you see parents sheltering their children from Halloween, Harry Potter, The Wizard of Oz, fantasy, imagination, 3rd-world countries, poverty, anger, etc, you've got a serious problem.
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:20 PM   #34 (permalink)
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"-What if the demand to enforce the dress code becomes so great that the government must become involved?" WTF!? why would that happen. Please give me some example where this could possibly happen? Its not a decision for the goverment its your own opinion!?

"-What if the censorship demanded requires a governmentally-controlled service\function to be altered?" I didnt know that censorship could deamnd things? Your right I think being lemmings in a dictoral goverment would be great!

"-What if the people demand that the government keep tabs on private companies to prevent them from abusing censorship powers?" Private companies have THEIR OWN rules (that means their own censorship) IF they do that I think the goverment should also regualte what my parents alow me to say and do. There really isnt a difference between the family and the private corperation. They are not regulated (in concideration of censorship) by the goverment.

"-It's still a form of government, regardless of scale.
-Congressmen, Senators, and the President, are elected by the public, therefore are public peers.
-Show me, anywhere in history, where a population of 310 million individuals, stretched over 3,537,441 square miles, governed themselves purely as a neighbor-to-neighbor society (310 million to 310 million)." - No it is not a goverment! People are noit bound to the community there. Its generally a good thing to do *cough*morals*cough* but they dont HAVE to do it. Yeah we do elect senators and whatever, but its usually the lesser of two devils. I write to my congressmen that I dont agree with censorship so dont lecsuture me about them. I didnt say that the goverment was horrible? I approve of the type of goverment I just dont like it when they take away my rights by censoring me...the patriot act is also evil... when they take away my rights our goverment turns more and more away from a democracy. Lets censor the people they elected for their own good.


"-Don't know about you...but my parents taught me from the day I was born about good morals and ethics. What exactly is brainwashing you to be immoral?
-Knowing what is right and what is wrong, I still take solice in knowing that I can avoid unpleasant things through the use of technology, and that my government is making an effort to do the same.
-In fact, I would argue that society is becoming TOO pure. More and more I see parents sheltering their children too much from the realities and natures of the world. I'm definately not saying we should show children porn, but when you see parents sheltering their children from Halloween, Harry Potter, The Wizard of Oz, fantasy, imagination, 3rd-world countries, poverty, anger, etc, you've got a serious problem. their own"
holy **** you think that america is becoming to MORAL!!!! I watched half an hour of 7th Heaven and i thought it was horrible! Lets teach cheating on your spouse and back sas. No america is not moral it is a parents right and duty to protect their children. Im not talking about physco home-schooling parents but to some extent they should. Do you think the goverment or your parnest should teach you their morals. In what way have I shown my self to be unmoral once... maybe swearing but... You were the one saying your going to go F*** your girlfriend. I'll save that for marrige so it means something. In responce to the lower half of that. Do you think that the goverment should mandate children to goto halloween, or to see harry potter? Thats a parents choice... its called PARENTING!

about the brainwashing thing... sorry everyone is.... Thats not always bad. Another good name for it is culture. We inheret our country and family traditions from our culture. This is taught to us. You were brought up to think the way you do... My Dad is conservative, I am mostly conservative. I may not belive everything he does but maybe my Mom or what I learned in school taught me some more insight to my political view mixed with my conservative. If you are not brainwashed what do you eat with... your hands... do you wear clothes... If our culture had those different traits we would think its perfectly noraml. You (now) may think that that is horrible traits but you were taught that it was so horrible.
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:22 PM   #35 (permalink)
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umm...? there was a problem when this was sent the four rolling eyes and the YOUR OWN are all suposed to be on the same line... dunno wut happened
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Old 10-14-2004, 04:57 PM   #36 (permalink)
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"-What if the demand to enforce the dress code becomes so great that the government must become involved?" WTF!? why would that happen. Please give me some example where this could possibly happen? Its not a decision for the goverment its your own opinion!?
Riding minibikes on an interstate highway is extremely dangerous, not only to the idiot on the minibike, but to the people on the road. So, the public demands that something be done (usually after three or four people die – just as a note on public morality for you) but there’s a problem. Only the government can apply laws to the interstate. Before, it was just parents telling their kids not to do it, but after a rash of accidents, the general public (the drivers) are now involved.
So what you got is a public demand forcing the government to create a law for the public.

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"-What if the censorship demanded requires a governmentally-controlled service\function to be altered?" I didnt know that censorship could deamnd things? Your right I think being lemmings in a dictoral goverment would be great!
Happens all the time. Here’s a scenario:
Imagine HP creates a new radio that provides the general public a great new way to receive broadcasted music, but these new radios can easily be tuned onto secured government channels. What do you do? Ask people to not listen in on government communications on their new radios by having them agree to an EULA?

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"-What if the people demand that the government keep tabs on private companies to prevent them from abusing censorship powers?" Private companies have THEIR OWN rules (that means their own censorship) IF they do that I think the goverment should also regualte what my parents alow me to say and do. There really isnt a difference between the family and the private corperation. They are not regulated (in concideration of censorship) by the goverment.
1. Just because a company is privately owned, it still is restricted within certain laws of the United States. A Japanese company can’t move to the US and proceed to totally disregard the laws of the US.
2. If you think private corporations aren’t regulated by government censorships, you should go checkout some books at yer local library. You’re right, a private corporation can do whatever they want...just so long as nothing they do touches the public.
3. Just because your parents told you not to, doesn’t mean you don’t. Just because it’s immoral to do something, doesn’t mean you don’t. Just because you’ve never run into a problem before, doesn’t mean you should continue doing it.

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- No it is not a goverment!
An organization of leadership by peers is a government. Look it up in the dictionary.
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People are noit bound to the community there.
This ain’t North Korea. You don’t like living in the US, you’re welcome to leave.
An organization of peers is something you ARE bound to. If you don’t abide by the rules, the rules are meaningless. You are bound to your little organization of peers by the agreement that you are going to be governed by what is decided.

Quote:
Its generally a good thing to do *cough*morals*cough* but they dont HAVE to do it.
There’s two kinds of rules (censorships, rules, guidelines, etc) inside an organization. The kind you don’t have to follow if you don’t want to...and the kind you must follow.
You can turn your V-chip off, if you decide you don’t want your TV to censor out porn. You cannot turn off government regulations that prevent you from picking up secure transmissions.
What kind of security do you think we’d have if the government said “We would like you to not tamper with these channels...but you don’t have to if you don’t want to”?

-----------------------------------

Let’s take a look at some scenarios:

Everyone agrees that having stoplights at intersections is a good thing. However, if for some suicidal reason you decide not to stop when the light turns red, you can do that. The only problem is, most of us would like it if you stopped on a red-light. In fact, we like it so much, it’s now a law. So now, if you drive through a red-light, you get pounded.

Here’s another scenario:
Turn signals.
Not using turn signals causes hundreds of accidents each day throughout the US. Despite the fact that it is the law that you use turn signals when making turns and changing lanes, people continue to disregard both the law and common-sense, and accidents continue to happen, people continue to get hurt, and our insurance and taxes keep going up.
Which would you rather see happen.
1. The laws regarding turn signals are dropped.
2. The government which makes these laws, ups their efforts to get people to use their turn signals more?

What if you chose number 2, and the government’s solution was to force car manufacturers to install a system in every car that made it impossible for you to change lanes or make turns without your turn-signals activating...and the result was a dramatic decrease in the number of injuries and deaths each day?

Next scenario (hypothetical):
The color red makes people behave in a way that is against the majority desires of the people. Therefore, the government requires that manufacturers of TVs install a system component that prevents the color ‘red’ from being seen on their TVs. Suddenly, the effects of the color ‘red’ on society decrease. However, a number of people who, understanding their moral obligations to themselves and to the public, still want to see the color ‘red’ from time to time. So, the manufacturers create their red-censoring components with the ability to be turned off or on. The result: The effects of the color ‘red’ on society decrease, and the people who still like to see ‘red’ remain happy.

-----------------------------------


Quote:
Yeah we do elect senators and whatever, but its usually the lesser of two devils.
I’ll assume you meant “evils” and not “devils.” The last thing we need is a crusade.
So what you’re saying here is that we should never have any elections unless there is always one person who has the exact same mentality as the other 310 million people in the US? Hate to break your bubble, pal, but you’re always going to have to make a compromise. I also hate to tell you that if we always had people who thought exactly the same as everyone else, we wouldn’t have the US anymore. We’d have the Borg Collective.

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I write to my congressmen that I dont agree with censorship so dont lecsuture me about them.
It’s his/her job to legislate.

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I approve of the type of goverment I just dont like it when they take away my rights by censoring me.
Despite the fact that it reads “God-given rights,” the truth of the matter is that the government GAVE you those rights. The only place you have the right to do everything your body and mind is capable of, is...well I was gonna say the moon, but no, there’s rules there too...Mars too...Maybe Europa?
As a citizen, you can’t put the nation at risk. As a citizen, you are bound by the legal system put in place. As a citizen, you are allowed to vote for the laws you want in place, but if you lose, you must abide by the laws that did get put in place. You have the right to break the law...but that doesn’t exempt you from the punishment.

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..the patriot act is also evil...
While I will admit that the Patriot Act is a bit slanted, I will note to you that over half of the new abilities the Patriot Act gives to the FBI and other law-enforcement agencies, are abilities the CIA and the NRO have had for decades. The right to search your medical records, house, etc, without warning, for instance. If a believed security threat exists, the FBI may not have been able to, but the CIA would have, and would have done it. All the Patriot Act did in this regard is allow the law-enforcement agencies a greater ability to do the same job they could do before but with twice the manpower.
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when they take away my rights our goverment turns more and more away from a democracy. Lets censor the people they elected for their own good.
Aside from protecting national security, the laws that censor you don’t happen because the President woke up one day and said “Make it so!” as he scratches his arse. The fact that we have a democracy means that these things are voted on, by the people we voted to do the voting. If you don’t like how your elected official is working, write him a letter. If you still don’t like him, don’t vote for him. He was put in place by a majority vote that represents the people’s belief that he is the best representative of their own beliefs.

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-In fact, I would argue that society is becoming TOO pure. More and more I see parents sheltering their children too much from the realities and natures of the world. I'm definately not saying we should show children porn, but when you see parents sheltering their children from Halloween, Harry Potter, The Wizard of Oz, fantasy, imagination, 3rd-world countries, poverty, anger, etc, you've got a serious problem."
holy **** you think that america is becoming to MORAL!!!! I watched half an hour of 7th Heaven and i thought it was horrible! Lets teach cheating on your spouse and back sas.
Wait wait wait wait wait...
So you think 7th Heaven is bad. You could program your v-chip to block that channel, but since you’re against being able to do that, you can’t use the v-chip as a tool to help you protect your children (and yourself) from 7th Heaven.


Now let me point this out: There’s a growing number of people who think we should outlaw and refuse to acknowledge Halloween, Harry Potter, The Wizard of Oz, fantasy, imagination, 3rd-world countries, poverty, anger, etc, because they believe that these things will corrupt their children. (Mind you, the vast majority of the people forcing schools and such to block these things are NOT members of the government, but moms and dads disassociated from the government and working as a collective group of peers.) My sister could not celebrate Halloween in her public high-school, because a local group of parents (our community’s supposed peers) did not want their children exposed to Halloween because to celebrate Halloween was the same as teaching them to celebrate the Devil.

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No america is not moral
Show me a country, following your definition of “moral”, that is...
(Oh, and you spell America with a capital A.)

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it is a parents right and duty to protect their children. Im not talking about physco home-schooling parents but to some extent they should.
Where are the parents when the children are at school?
Where on Earth do you find total consistency in the beliefs of parenting between neighbors?
If parents assumed the proper duty of protecting their children that they should, there wouldn’t be as many child-related crimes and tragedies.

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Do you think the goverment or your parnest should teach you their morals.
----------
“All in favor of banning Halloween from public schools?” - President
Aye - parent
Aye - parent
Aye - parent
Aye - parent
Nay - parent
“Law passes, no Halloween in public schools.” - President
Parent sends their kid to school in a Halloween costume.
“You can’t do that.” - President
“Why not?” - Parent
“Because it’s law.” - President
“By what power?” - Parent
“By the power invested in me by the majority vote.” - President
-
This is your democratic government.
This is your democratic government in motion.
Any questions?
-----------

Quote:
In what way have I shown my self to be unmoral once... maybe swearing but... You were the one saying your going to go F*** your girlfriend.
I’m concerned you didn’t read that remark correctly, because this is the second time you’ve misplaced the context. Go back. See the example I was making? (BTW, those asterisks blocking out the U and the C, are mine. Not the forum’s.)

Quote:
If you are not brainwashed what do you eat with... your hands... do you wear clothes...
I think you’re using “brainwashed” too broadly, but anyway... In this culture, we eat with forks and knives. However, I have coworkers who prefer to eat with chopsticks. It is still, in our culture, an acceptable way of eating, despite the fact that no one in my family (or any school I’ve ever been to) uses chopsticks. When I was a child, I was taught that eating with a fork instead of my hands was a more polite way to eat, but I know that other cultures do things differently and I can see their viewpoints (though I may not always agree with them).

Quote:
If our culture had those different traits we would think its perfectly noraml. You (now) may think that that is horrible traits but you were taught that it was so horrible.
I was not taught that different cultures were horrible. I was taught that different cultures are different.
I was not taught that people who don’t eat with forks are horrible, I was taught that randomly cramming food into my mouth with my hands was impolite...That it was horrible in the eyes of people who preferred to eat with forks, though it may not be horrible in the eyes of other cultures.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Before I close my comments for today, I just have one last thing to say.

If you can’t use some kind of grammar and spelling in your posts, stop posting. It’s like I’m arguing with a 1st grader.
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Old 10-14-2004, 05:56 PM   #37 (permalink)
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didnt they outlaw porn in kentucky? or was it sex toys? it was one of them in one of the bible belt states that i know...
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Old 10-14-2004, 07:51 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Shoobie, you are a genious, "borg collective". Now, I must say that I do not like conversations that even border on political, but this is so interesting and you make so many good, I mean, great points, while maintaining your cool at the same time. Props to you!
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Old 10-14-2004, 09:04 PM   #39 (permalink)
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u guys just think u are SO smart with all this FCC times the NRO means they wont let u because the infrared reciever eats up the frequency which has atoms of the element that might intercept BLA BLA BLA BLA

i know 2+2.................. OWNED
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Old 10-14-2004, 10:36 PM   #40 (permalink)
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ohGrFreak - Props to you!
Thank you.

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play2lose - u guys just think u are SO smart with all this FCC times the NRO means they wont let u because the infrared reciever eats up the frequency which has atoms of the element that might intercept BLA BLA BLA BLA
So...your too much of an idiot to follow along. What's your point? Why do we care?

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t3rk1sh - didnt they outlaw porn in kentucky? or was it sex toys? it was one of them in one of the bible belt states that i know...
There's lots of law-facts, unusual laws, and funny laws, that I could list (and you could search and read about)...but mentioning them would only fuel my side of the argument and I don't want to pick specifics right now.
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