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Old 12-11-2008, 02:18 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Smile Re: Universal Troubleshooting Methodology? What's the best practice? Resource?

25 min ain't bad at all!

I'm just seeing if anyone out there has a good method of their own.

The examples are vague on purpose. The process works in such a way that each step within has a list of detailed instructions, as you mentioned. The idea is the methodology doesn't (shouldn't) change, however the "how to" can be updated. So each major step can refer to a series of other instructions.

I have a pretty darn good page saved (at work) that i can't find now from HP that has a great layout of flow charts that in each steps, refers to another set of flow charts. I'm working on this so when i get "stitch" together all the good ideas i find, i'll post them here.

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Old 12-12-2008, 03:14 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Universal Troubleshooting Methodology? What's the best practice? Resource?

Originally Posted by PolishPaul View Post
Precisely! Hence a good method for working through the problem is key. Each situation, as you mention, is taken separately however, you still work through it the same way.

I think I'm talking about what steps to take, and you guys are thinking of how to accomplish each step.

Look, I've been around for a long time as well and problem solving does (can) have a logical approach to it. I've troubleshot circuits, code, software/harware/os's/networks, appliances, just about anything i can imagine.

p.s. Mak213, why was my post edited?
Okay first how can you agree that i am correct saying that each situation is unique then go on to say that there is a general approach that can be used.

No there isnt. If the systems doesnt boot and they have Linux on there you cant use a general guideline to help them. Just as if there is Win 9X platform on there or Win 2000 or Win XP or Win Vista or even Win7. There is absolutely NO General all for 1 answer.

Broad terms. Dont boot. Solution varies on so many different terms that not 1 single solitary guideline will help as each variation gives you different answers to the question. That isnt even taking into effect the other things that can come with it. Be a dead CMOS, BIOS Changes that have to be made and if they have the Media to do certain tasks.

You gave examples and now so have I. A simple and broad example. There is no way to make a guideline for something as simple as "It wont/dont boot".

Each step taken depends on the answer given to the first set of question asked. As i pointed out just above with my very broad example of "Dont Boot" depending on some answers is where the next step will take you.

If XP this, If Vista that...so on. Unique situation not a single guideline that can be used. Yeah you can sprout off the Recovery Console with fixboot and fixmbr....but that only applies to 1 OS out of many that can be in use. General Guideline wouldnt have Specific information.

The main thing is that there is no logical explination for how PC's act. I can install Windows Vista on my machine and have it run flawlessly. Yet someone else with better specs can install it and have nothing but trouble. How is that logical? It isnt. There is no logical explination cause you can not and do not know every single factor that comes into play. You do not know what they do with their PC, you do not know if they know a single thing about PC's, you do not know what actions they have taken to try and resolve this themselves, you do not know if they have done anything to hurt the situation more.

In no way shape or form is there anything logical about why a PC gets errors. Missing a boot loader. Why? Why would a machine that boots fine all of a sudden lose its boot loader? There is no logic to it. It just happens. We do our best to help people fix the issues with the little bit of information that they were given.

As for why your post was edited, it is because you had 2 posts in a row. Multiple posts in a row we do not like. We ask that people use the Edit button which is active for 24 hours. After that posting in sequential order is fine. But only after the Edit button is no longer available. You had 2 posts within minutes of each other so i had merged them.

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Old 12-12-2008, 05:46 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Angry Re: Universal Troubleshooting Methodology? What's the best practice? Resource?

aha, yeah.. i always use the edit button.. perhaps i slipped..

Look - you may not see the logic in all of this, however, there is a logical APPROACH to the situation. We're arguing 2 different areas of the topic. Please notice i'm talking about an APPROACH or a TECHNIQUE to troubleshooting, which IS LOGICAL!!! You don't randomly troubleshoot your problems do you?

Please read my above posts again. I already mentioned:
"I think I'm talking about what steps to take, and you guys are thinking of how to accomplish each step."

To break that down, its about a structured approach to PROBLEM SOLVING. Not a specific instance of a problem. Does that make any sense? Please try to see that I'm not arguing about the specific steps on how to approach a specific issue.

I'll drop a metaphor - lets say you're giving someone instructions on how to fix a PC. You may take this approach (completely arbitrary!):

1. Format the drive
2. install the OS
3. install drivers
4. run updates

Each of these steps gives a GENERAL OUTLINE on how to proceed, but does not give the specific, step-by-step instructions. This is sort of what i'm trying to refer to.

As you know, in math and science, there are general procedures to follow to accomplish certain tasks, whether this is an experiment or solving an equation. You're talking about how to solve a SPECIFIC equation, i'm talking about the method of doing so. This is why we're not seeing eye-to-eye.

If you don't see what i'm talking about, give me a week or 2 and i'll post my final results. Again, i'm SURE you have some kind of approach to ANY problem you encounter??? You don't just do things in random!

In short. Don't take this personally, because i don't doubt your skills - but you've missed the point of this post completely.
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Old 12-13-2008, 11:37 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Universal Troubleshooting Methodology? What's the best practice? Resource?

But knowing the logical approach doesn't benefit anyone apart from the completely unintelligent ignorant. Its almost impossible to troubleshoot randomly as everything you do is beneficial as it proves what isn't wrong with the system which although it may seem unbeneficial at the beggining of a logical and linear testing method you may get lucky. Your too vague simple as that your not going to add any more detail to a troubleshooting guide without adding the details that change it from approaches to solutions

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