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Old 06-03-2005, 01:24 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Him - That cant be how it works.

ok i think i found the simplest example maybe....

electrons(static) are like heat... there not created or lost, but transfered. when you rub agains something with for example wool. the friction and material causess a build up of electrons on the wool. The wool is now charged with electrons. And anything that has less of a charge, the electron buildup on the wool will be atracted to it if its a good enough conductor.

and so a computer case will be zapped when you touch it untill the electron(static) charge between you and the case is equalized. The more electrons that grabbed on your cloths the higher the charge or greater the voltage will be. Its a quick shock though so its not like a sustaind current, but with that many volts the electrons obliterate the internals of some electric components by prolly putting electron holes threw them.
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I would guess that you could probably build up a high enough static charge to kill a person, but most likely will not happen because the electricity has to pass threw vital organs, but what it does is it just travels down the side of your body to ground.
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and i may be rong, but i think it migh be .01a that is dangerous, not .1 ...... becuase all i remember is above 30v is dangerous, and dry human skin resistance is very high, so 30/.01 = 3000ohms
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and i dont know the exact reason why, but your safe in a car, not because the metal absorbes all the electricity. but either because the metal passes the electricy past you to ground, or the rubber gap between the car and ground is greater resistence then the surrounding tall objects around the car.
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so, sorry him. i had to clear up your clear up post.
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Old 06-03-2005, 02:10 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by jolancer
your body fat can affect your resistence, making fat ppl more susceptible to static shock. in shape high muscel densitiy ppl will be less susceptible to static.

also if you sweat a lot, or your hands are always dirty or greasy. that can probably cut resistence nearly in 2, making you more susceptible to static shock.

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a Static shock doesnt work on its own, 1st component is you and your clothing that has built up static from everyday activitys. 2nd component is in this case the computer part witch is static free. Pretend Static electrons are on a Weight scale, and pretend that what thy like to do is keep the scale ballenced. So your on one end of the scale weighing that side way down, and the pc part is on the other end suspended high in the air by the other end of the scale.

if you were to touch a component on the pc part, the scale would instantly equallize so you and the component carry the same ammount of static electrons. and however many thousands of electrons you built up on your body over the day have now just zapped the computer part.
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i forget how high you can build up static, but its much higher then the 12v that 'senseless' used to zap his mobo.

i know its possible for some to build up static to somewere in the thousand volt range.

im more muscular then fat, and dont sweat unless its hot, but i use a wrist strap. though i could prolly do without, since i dont work on pc's as often as ppl who's job it is to do so. but better safe then sorry is my opinion, especially if its my own equipment that i wont to remain in working order.
Damn. I'm fat, I sweat when i'm nervous, and I'm shakey. I remember moving my components to another case I was really shakey thinking I was gonna fry my computer. That's like my biggest fear is frying something or cracking it. I just touched the side of my case though I'm planning to buy a static wristband for my next build. I also had socks on but was on a wood floor. My mother has a lot of carpets on the floor and shes like "just work on the table" and I always get ticked, hate carpets, my friend fried 3 of my cpus for his computer working on a damn carpet.
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Old 06-03-2005, 03:49 AM   #43 (permalink)
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PILMAN - you dont need to worry so much... its like when i was first researching how to flash a bios, i always heard... bla bla bla you can permanently screw up the computer if its not flashed properly... same possiblity with static electricity... but the procedures are actually quite simple, and when the proper precaustions are taken, you have almost nothing to worry about.

If you take off your sox while working(or put shoes on). and touch the case or psu b4 anything else, avoid toughing the circuits on the components as much as possible, and dont let your clothing tough them. Then its prolly almost impossible to shock something, even if your not using a anti-static wristband. though it can never hurt to use a wristband, i use one even though it may not be nesessary.
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Old 06-03-2005, 05:55 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Generally it's harder than you think to actually cause these things to happen....unless you are just going around in socks on a carpet, rubbing your feet on there you won't build up a charge.....although I have been in some rooms like at the local church here where we hold our LANs that just happens to be FILLED with electricity as I get shocked pretty much everytime I touch my case....

Anywho...if your components are turned off, and you've given it a few seconds for it to completely discharge the electricty and you touch the metal inside of your case (hell I generally lean on my case) you will be grounded fine.........in most instance you won't fry a component when it's turned off.......it's when it's working and a sudden major fluctuation in juice happens is when it gets killed...

I've never used a wristband and have never shocked myself on a component nor even come close to killing one from static electricity.
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Old 06-03-2005, 08:56 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by jolancer
Him - That cant be how it works.

ok i think i found the simplest example maybe....

electrons(static) are like heat... there not created or lost, but transfered. when you rub agains something with for example wool. the friction and material causess a build up of electrons on the wool. The wool is now charged with electrons. And anything that has less of a charge, the electron buildup on the wool will be atracted to it if its a good enough conductor.

and so a computer case will be zapped when you touch it untill the electron(static) charge between you and the case is equalized. The more electrons that grabbed on your cloths the higher the charge or greater the voltage will be. Its a quick shock though so its not like a sustaind current, but with that many volts the electrons obliterate the internals of some electric components by prolly putting electron holes threw them.
-----------------------------------------

I would guess that you could probably build up a high enough static charge to kill a person, but most likely will not happen because the electricity has to pass threw vital organs, but what it does is it just travels down the side of your body to ground.
-------------------------------------

and i may be rong, but i think it migh be .01a that is dangerous, not .1 ...... becuase all i remember is above 30v is dangerous, and dry human skin resistance is very high, so 30/.01 = 3000ohms
-------------------------------

and i dont know the exact reason why, but your safe in a car, not because the metal absorbes all the electricity. but either because the metal passes the electricy past you to ground, or the rubber gap between the car and ground is greater resistence then the surrounding tall objects around the car.
---------------------

so, sorry him. i had to clear up your clear up post.
I dig you had to clear it up, but you are in fact wrong, I'm sorry but i have to point it out.

Electricity dissipates in metal. Goes down to nothing. There will be so much metal for the electricity to go through, and not enough electricity, that it will simply dissolve in the metal. If there is a constant source of electrocity, however, this will not happen. That is why you are safe in a car, because the lightning bolt will dissipate in the metal. It is not because of the rubber. You need almost a mile of rubber to be safe on that front. A tire will only give 5 inches or so of distance between the metal of a car and the ground, a since a lightning bolt is several million volts, it can easily jump this gap.

It is amps that kill people, not volts. It might be .01, I'm not entirely sure what it is, but it is not very much. I have had 50,000 volts passed through me and it does nothing but feel weird. At any given time the body has an ecess of several hudred volts running through it.

I studied electronic and electric theory several years, I know how it works. My professor had rigged up an ignition coil and would let us zap ourselves with it. I think the equation is for every inch of visible spark you see, thats 10,000 volts. I've touched electric fences, which have the 50,000 volts, and you feel nothing but a tingle. It is enough to turn away most animals and people though. It is amperage, not voltage. You could have 1V kill you if it was pushing enough amps.

Electricity takes the path of least resistence. Since your body operates mainly on electricity, the path of least resistance is more than likely going to be your central nervous system.... Which is including but not limited to your heart.

I'm sorry, if i sounded at all condascending please forgive me. I do know what I'm talking about, and I have had these EXACT questions explained fully to me. I have asked why a computer case grounds you, I have asked about the tires on a car, and I have asked about dissipation.
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Old 06-03-2005, 09:30 AM   #46 (permalink)
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after reading all this, i've decided not to drive a car ever again, nor use a computer. i just like being alive too much.
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Old 06-03-2005, 09:44 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Then you still have to worry about being tazed by a cop because you parked in a no parking zone and having your muscles contract snapping your spinal cord in half.

http://www.infowars.com/subject_arch...rs_archive.htm
This guy collects a lot of info on tasers and deaths resulting.

edit:

Or.

A cop thinks you're on drugs and you voluntarily go to take a drug test.. You get to the hospital and you cant go.. after 30mins or so the cop gets mad and tells the nurse to put a cathoder in you. You start freaking out because who the hell wants a cathoder in them? So the cop tazes you to subdue you so they could put a cathoder in and collect their "voluntary" sample.
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Old 06-03-2005, 09:49 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Thats the five-0 for ya...
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Old 06-03-2005, 01:36 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I was speaking with a cop about those tazers once.. he said it's kind of a catch 22 because if a someone has a gun or a weapon and they tell them to put it down and they don't.. then the cop tazers them... well their muscles contract and they can't put it down and it might even cause them to shoot the gun they were holding.
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Old 06-03-2005, 04:17 PM   #50 (permalink)
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yes, i completely understand that its amps that kill... but volts and amps are related.

example - if the coil in the test was using a 12v@15a source and it transforms it into 30000v to jump a gap, 12x15=180... 180/30000=.006amps. so it will not harm you.

and 1volt can push amps threw anything with a low enough resistence. but once it hits a human body(average 3000ohms) its harmless. so 30v is a average mimimum danger.
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and i cant say that you are rong about electricity being obsorbed by metal. but it doesnt sound resonable to me. you'd have to explain it more or link to an explaination.

metal has such low resistence i dont understand why it would absorb much of it at all. and electircity is sorta like a domino effect its not like trying to stuff Xamount of electrons in a limited space.
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