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Old 08-20-2003, 04:11 AM   #21 (permalink)
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(quick note about Linux.. You have to admit.. It's ALOT more user friendly than it used to be... lol..)

Well there are many good points on both sides of this.. I would say (like someone earlier) what it all boils down to is personal preference and application.. If you are doing sound or video editing, production layout (like for newspapers or printshops), or digital imageing - Get a Mac.. you certainly can't do any better and you can definately do worse..

However, if you are doing alot of gaming, want a vast array of compatability, or use a good amount of network applications (read LAN parties). Get a PC. That's what a "standard" PC was designed for.

They each have their praises and pitfalls.. What an individual must do is decide where their applications lie and what the end use of the computer will be and purchase the system that fits that application. Reguardless of the "Toy" status that the computer has obtained, it is still a tool that allows us to perform actions that we would not be capable of without it. (Much like a hammer or a saw)

Personally, the applications that I most often require my computer to perform stand firmly in the PC genre, and I don't see that changing in the near future. If that isn't the case for you.. No biggie... Some people like to eat tofu too.. lol..
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Old 08-20-2003, 04:18 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by apokalipse
and as for Mac's having 3 PCI slots instead of 6, how many people use up 6 PCI slots nowadays? - maybe mac is looking forward instead of keeping the past
well, technically macs have 4, but 3 PCI cards are enough to max out the bandwidth on the shared PCI bus. 6 PCI cards are overkill. The bus itself has and ideal1.3GBps shared bandwidth between every slot. With 6/4 PCI slots, you have 200/350 MBps or so each of headroom- not very much, especially if you want to have an second HD controller (SCSI or ATA), a firewire/usb2 combo card and a mac compatable sound card/pc compatable sound card, modem/NIC-gigabit or other/WiFi (if needed).

Apple did make a good move, though maybe unintentionally, but allowing it's PCI slots more bandwidth.
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Old 08-20-2003, 06:17 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Well I didnt want to get into a debate with you, but I guess I must. Time to get back do discounting your points one by one... again.

"<--not when you install OS 9 and OSX one the same computer, i just did it 100 times"

OSX install includes in the installation of a bootable OS9 system folder. So, you get two operating systems, 10.x.x and 9.2.2, when you install OSX. Obviously you did the installation incorrectly. It should work not hundreds of times, but thousands of times, without compromise. Installing retail OSX on 100 computers is also illegal unless you buy multiple licenses, so I suggest you look into that further if you did not buy the multi-license version.

<--i wasnt talking about the first boot, im talking about now, when the students boot up the computer, it randomly switches between OS 9 and OSX

Someone probably was tinkering with the start up disk control panel and selected the OS9 system folder to boot from instead of OSX. That is the only logical explanation.

<--actually Linux is based on a unix shell (bash, bourne, corn, etc), so whats the big diff? O yeah, Linux is FREE!

Whats the big "diff"? A lot of things. They're similar in composition, Linux and UNIX, but they are definitely different. And just because Linux is free does not mean OSX has to be free. Linux crashes a lot and is quite unstable unless you have the knowledge to handle it. OSX, and UNIX as a whole for that matter, is exactly opposite. It rarely crashes and is easy to handle even by the most novice of users (UNIX obviously is not for beginner users). UNIX essentially runs the backbone of the internet and was chosen for that job because of its rock solid stability. The UNIX shell for OSX is used for speed, stability and its attractiveness for both novice users, for its stability and OSX's simplicity, and advanced users who like advanced features OSX contains from its UNIX roots without the UNIX pain.

<-- you forgot about the $600 program called Quark, the main program we use in the graphics department, or is that just "insignificant"

Echem.... Quark? Quark 6 is fully Mac OSX native. Any graphics professional who uses Quark 5 and wants to use OSX would surely dish out the cash for Quark 6, as improvements beyond OSX nativity were added also.

<-- And cost a bundle more, how many schools/people can afford to replace ALL of their graphics software?

Yes, but why is a school upgrading to OSX is they can't run any of their software on it? Also, people have to make the decision to migrate to OSX. If they are content with OS9 or earlier, fine. I personally know a few people who run OS9 because they can't jump onto OSX yet (Jaguar, version 10.2, is pretty taxing for a slow system) or want to see how OSX matures before taking the plunge.

And also, a school that uses graphics software should be pretty specialized and therefore would have money set aside to deal with things such as software and hardware upgrades. If it is a specific class within the school, they can either just deal with OS9 or try and allocate money to buy the software. Education and bulk license discounts enable some schools to get new software for dirt cheap.

<-- where is a consumer gonna get a g4/g5 processor? i dont see them on ebay, pricewatch, or newegg (etc) And they are at least twice as much, if you can find them, I can only get them, because the school I work for gets them from the manufacturer, most MACS have integrated nics and video cards (2 most commonly replaced items as stated by consumer reports, o wait, i forgot, im uneducated, i cant read consumer reports)

Well, a consumer can order an upgrade from Sonnett Technologies, which has a range of prices depending on CPU speed and model of computer. You can get a Sonnett Harmony upgrade card for your Rev. A-D iMac that adds Firewire support and a faster processor (in some cases, this processor could be more than 2x times the clock speed) G4 cards can also be had at a range of clock speeds, but the higher it goes the more money it will take. It is true that some macs have unremovable graphics hardware (like the imac and emac lines) that are not on mobo, but are not replacable. I will give you that. Though, on your other point, don't you want integrated NIC, to free up a PCI slot?

<--cube, imac, emac, or the golfball-looking ones, you cant fit crap in them

Well.... in the cube you can get third party processor, RAM, hard drive, optical drive and video card upgrades- so it looks like you can change quite a bit there. iMacs (flatpanel and CRT) as well as emacs are considered "all in one" computers, and cannot be upgraded beyond RAM. But this is concurrent with PC "all in one" models, like the Gateway Profile series, which also lack any after market upgrade paths besides RAM.

<-- you could build a pc at those speeds for around $1000, easy, and only 3 pcis? Come on, I have 4 pci cards in my pc, plus 2 free expansion slots

At those speeds? Really? Wow, Id like to see you build a dual processor machine with processing power similar to about a 2GHz x86 per chip for under 1000$. Also, what do you need 4 PCI cards for? I can think of only two anyone really would need: Firewire/USB 2.0 add in card (if not on mobo), NIC (if not on mobo). (A PCI WiFi attenna would also do well, but you can buy USb models as well, so I didn't count it.)

<--that’s even worse than what the MAC teacher told her students, lol

What your teacher probably told you was Apple's OS install base, which rides at around 10% of the world's computers. But your words of "total market share" led me to believe you spoke of market share, so I thought it wise to correct you.
Market share, incase you did not know, if the amount of computers sold by Apple with its OS on it in comparison to how many total computers were sold in the world. So, in other words, Apple sold around 3 to 4 percent of the total computers sold worldwide thay year.

<-- this is total bs, not true at all, I used to sell software at best buy, and we usually didn’t get mac software in for at least a month after it came out for pc

Well, since Best Buy does not sell mac software unless it is on the same disk as is PC counterpart, it does not suprise me one bit that you did not really see it flow in.

<--that’s 1 game, half life 2 will not be a conj release, nor will doom 3, or the new thief game

I never said any of those games would be. I just said that a few major games do come down the mac pipeline in a conjunction release with their PC counterparts.

]<-- only the full-version updates, if you have an older version, you can just download the updates, before the software even hits the shelves

Im sure Adobe would love to hear you say that you download its major version updates... its $200+ major version updates. Any other upadates, such as bug fixes and minor program revisions, are freely released on the internet. And you can't get any software before it hits shelves unless it is a public beta, demo or online pre-release promotion.

<--which is what most people play

Yes, but Macs are not outright gaming rigs. Most people with macs actually want to do something else with their computers... a thing called "work". Ever heard of it? If people really wanted to hardcore game, they would buy a PC. Everyone who owns a Mac understands this. PC games take time to reach OSX native status, and therefore are released for mac much later than their first introduction. Macs do have games though, do not be mistaken. Medal of Honor: Allied Assualt and Spearhead, Quake 3, and Unreal Tournament 2003, just to name a few.

<-- I was talking about the fact that you can hop on the internet, and go to a place like, I don’t know, KAZAA and download just about anything you want for pc

Well, you can hop on any P2p network and grab mac stuff too. Ever heard of Aquisition or Limewire, running off of the Gnutella P2p network? Or how about Posioned, running off of the Fastrack (AKA Kazaa) network, as well as the GIFT, Open FT and Gnutella network? You can get mac software to your hearts desire and it takes the same patience and luck of the draw as it does with finding PC software on the same services. Also, Posioned, Limewire and Aquisition all do not install that nasty spyware that Kazaa is so famous for.

<-- LOL! We are running all G4s or G5s!!!

Doubtful on the G5. The G5 just shipped less than half a week ago and would take atleast a week to ship anywhere (ground shipping). And if you are running G4's, they're probably really slow as well. Just because you are running a high end chip doesn't mean that you are guarenteed performence akin to its faster clocked brothern. Tell me the specs of your G4 systems and I'll tell you if theyre even supported by Mac OSX.

<-- but that was my point, you can just play bink (ever heard of a typo?) on pcs, no software needed, and with macs, you have to go search for it, no handy little box showing you where it is

Well, if you dont have the program to open it then Im sure opening the little box would be a futile effort. Also, if you want to watch the videos, Im sure you wouldnt be so inconvenienced that you spend all of 3 minutes searching, locating, downloading and opening/configuring the program.

And yes, I have heard of a typo. You have many in your previous posts. Ever head of spell check?

<--imac, emac, flavormac NO FAN AT ALL!! Heat just sits in there

Hmm... thats funny. I certainly recall my old, 333 MHz iMac having a CPU fan and an exhaust fan that whisked heat out of the top. Their compact design does lend to heat better than, say, a tower design, but the heat is well within the specifications of all the parts inside and should do no damage what so ever to the machine. Every mac on the planet, besides the Cube, has a CPU fan. Even their laptops have them and they kick in when the processor is running too toasty.

<--So, 2 processors=slower than one? NO dual processors is used to combine the processing power of 2 individual processors (actually up to 16 processors with windows datacenter) on 1 motherboard to make a processor that essentially ‘adds’ the power of 2 together.

God damn, this is by far the worst mistake you've made. The others were passable if you were a newbie (which you claim is not the case, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt), but this takes the cake.

Dual processors do not combine to equal one processor with double the power! Dual processors, in reality, act like two separate computer cores. Data is split between them, and each compute and churn out the finished data. One processor can be used to run system and apps while the other one takes the load off of the first processor. So, essentially, more work gets done because you have two, independent but coordinated, processors. This all translates into higher speed in real life usage of the OS. Some programs cannot utilize both processors, but almost (Adobe products like photoshop, and Apple video products like Final Cut Pro) high end, as well as middle and low end apps can utilize the two cores for simultanious data crunching.

So, once again: The clock speeds are not added together! Each chip is INDEPENDENT of the other and work in cooperation. The only two technologies that support multiple CPU cores that work as a single processing unit are cell computer chips (AKA, putting multiple cpu cores onto one chip; technology slated for use in the Playstation 3 gaming console) and node super computing, like the Earth simulator, the cureent world's fastest computer, in Japan.

<- i have had a 2.2 ghz p4 for over a year now, and I bought mine over 6 months after they came out.

So, even if your 2.2 GHz Pentium 4 is barely 2 years old, that still does not account for you saying that 4GHz speeds have been around in Xeon processors for "years".

<-- I just have 1 last question for you, are you A+ certified? Because I am. Are you Cisco certified? Because I am. And are you novel certified? Guess what? I’m working on that, but unless you have more certifications than I do and more than 100 credit hours in college, do not consider yourself “more educated” bitch

Well, Mr. King of the world, you asked me 4 questions in that little comeback of yours, not one. Work on that for next time.

So, A+ certified? Thats great because that teaches you how to use and repair WINDOWS computers. It does not, however, make you the end all know all source for hardware information and does not even entitle you to bash Macs, because neither their hardware, nor OS, are even mentioned in your course
material. It is evident that you are not an Apple certified technician, so I won't even bother with that.

Cisco and Novell (typo again, my man. NOVELL, not NOVEL) certified? Grand. I'm proud to say that you can now effectively network computers/troubleshoot networking problems and use and troubleshoot Novell's own Netware product. But, unfortunately for you, these two certifications have no meaning towards anything, and I mean anything, related to this discussion.

So, once again, I have discounted every one of your weak, horribly crafted rebuttles. I never said I was more educated than you nor did I once say that you can't read consumer reports. Whether you can read or not is your concern. In fact, I have much less education that you. I am,in all honesty, a 15 year old high school sophomore. Consider yourself tossed. Bitch.
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Old 08-20-2003, 07:11 PM   #24 (permalink)
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"<--not when you install OS 9 and OSX one the same computer, i just did it 100 times"

Oh please. If you wanted to install OS 9 and X on mass, start cloning the disk image or buy an XServe....oh wait...

"the MAC teacher told her students"

Are you a student or did you decide to install an OS on a computer which you have no speciality in? Next time, ask the Mac (note the lower case) to install it....he/she will take approx 1/100th of the time with no mistakes.

"actually Linux is based on a unix shell (bash, bourne, corn, etc), so whats the big diff? O yeah, Linux is FREE! "

Come again? A shell is a wrapper around the OS to give you command line functions....So what has that got to do with? I have bash installed on my mac...

As for free, so is Darwin. Enjoy downloading it and installing KDE on top, or Gnome or whatever you want to use.

"Yes, but Macs are not outright gaming rigs. Most people with macs actually want to do something else with their computers... a thing called "work". Ever heard of it?"

Indeed. I kinda bought this machine to do work because those cheaper dedicated gaming systems (GameCube, Playstation, XBox) run brilliantly. A PC is the same...its a machine of work and was always designed as one.

"most MACS have integrated nics and video cards (2 most commonly replaced items as stated by consumer reports, o wait, i forgot, im uneducated, i cant read consumer reports)"

You know...most Macs do not have integrated nics or video cards but if you want to use that argument...sure go ahead. I think the largest computer company in the world (Dell) uses integrated video cards whenever they can. Is that a problem?

Then again, who reads consumer reports if they know their stuff? They are the most ill informed and biased magazine I have ever read.

"cube, imac, emac, or the golfball-looking ones"

The cube is discontinued...it was a failure.

You can upgrade the iMac and eMac however you want. Check out xlr8yourmac.com.

Where is this golfball Mac? Where can I buy one?

Oh...I love this one:

"LOL! We are running all G4s or G5s!!!"

So you installed OS 9 on a pile of 64bit machines? You installed retail OS X on a 64 bit machine? How? I need to be enlightened as that is a major breakthrough.

Then again...correct me if I am wrong...but no one has received G5's yet.

"imac, emac, flavormac NO FAN AT ALL!! Heat just sits in there"

iMac has a fan. eMac has a fun. Flavormac does not exist so I can't quote you on a fan.

As for heat sitting in there...how efficient is a PC case for removing heat? Ever looked inside one of those G5's you have?

"So, 2 processors=slower than one? NO dual processors is used to combine the processing power of 2 individual processors (actually up to 16 processors with windows datacenter) on 1 motherboard to make a processor that essentially ‘adds’ the power of 2 together."

2 processors is slower than one if the application is not written for 2 processors. Then again...if it is, its definitely not double as you stated. The only consumer machine that comes anywhere near it is the G5 that you have.

There is always a load incurred to keep the processors in tune. My Dual 867 PowerMac has very nice performance off one proc....but when I move to 2 I only get 187% efficiency....why is that? All that kernel swapping to keep the two threads in sync. And no, don't argue...I program Macs and dual processor machines for a living.

"I just have 1 last question for you, are you A+ certified? Because I am. Are you Cisco certified? Because I am. And are you novel certified? Guess what? I’m working on that, but unless you have more certifications than I do and more than 100 credit hours in college, do not consider yourself “more educated” bitch "

Whoa man settle down...did not two people bitch slap your sorry *** all over the playground? Please, tell someone else about your knowledge...most of the world's population is computer illiterate but it seems not these two Mac users.
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Old 08-20-2003, 07:30 PM   #25 (permalink)
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This is a great debate, although you both have missed alot of points, and have stated a few incorrect pieces of info.

Im not getting into it, because there will never be a winner and I have debated this many times. Im just gonna say this.

DROP THE PERSONAL ATTACKS. I WILL lock this thread if that doesnt stop.

Carry on.
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Old 08-20-2003, 07:37 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ecniv

DROP THE PERSONAL ATTACKS. I WILL lock this thread if that doesnt stop.

Carry on.
will do. Just cancelling out his "bitch" name call with one of my own. Nothing but preserving the balance of the universe. Also, Im sorry for calling his posts "garbage" and the like, but I was just so mad that he would post such a blatently inaccurate post and try and pass it off as truth. The users of this forum deserve better than that.

and carry on, I shall.
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Old 08-21-2003, 12:35 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Dear sir....I am sorry, but you obviously have no clue what you are talking about. Then again, you also completely ignored what the Mod said. I will rebut, but I am pretty sure this thread will be closed.

"with 10.x.x you do not get 2 separate OS, you can open a window of os9, but it is not bootable"

Wrong. You can boot both OS's if the machine allows it. In the case of a MDD PowerMac or G5 PowerMac, a PowerBook 12" or 17" or an eMac, you can only boot classic inside Mac OS X.

"its a mac, there is no logical explanation"

It is rather obvious what your objectives our in this conversation. You posting the video simply backs it up.

"this is quite possilby the most laughable thing anyone has ever said tome, linux is the most stable OS to date, that is why every1 and their doguses it for web hosting"

I disagree totally. Having YDL, Debian, Gentoo and Mandrake sitting on the PC next to me...I can tell you that yes it is stable, but when you know how to set it up and it correctly identifies your hardware. Then again, why is it so laughable? The internet was first used on Unix, the web browser was created on Unix and a massive proportion of routes and pages are distributed by Unix. Yes, you are correct, everyman and his dog uses Linux these days, but its because as you stated, its free. Darwin is free to.

"ahh, but the school just purchased 100 licenses for OSX, you think aschool can afford all that software + 10 new G5s just for the graphicsdepartment?"

Coming from someone who argued that a bad reason to have a Mac was a lack of software to steal software...that does sound hypocritical.

"some of our newer software can only be run on OSX, some can only berun on OS9, therefore we have to have both"

You make a valid point although any software worth its weight would have already been ported. If it has not, seek out competitors, they generally will give you a better experience.

"OS9 is a big pile of crap, we are trying to get away from it, but itspretty hard to buy all new software"

I agree with your comment (I am a switcher after all) but you just state there that OS 9 is crap...nothing about X. Is the entire problem that OS 9 exists? If so...maybe you really should just switch them to PC's if they don't work to your standards.

"no because if your nic goes out, you have to replace the mobo, not justa $5 nic"

If the nic goes out you are covered by AppleCare as all education machines ship with 3 years of it...should not be a problem.

"stay away from all-in-1s pc or mac, i dont care, they both suck"

So the single most popular computer in all history sucks? Kinda amusing to me. Please, keep opinions out of a factual conversation...it only insights flames.

"5 pcis, easy 1) firewire 2) sound card 3) nic 4) game controllerport/midi 5) raid/scsi card"

May I ask what you are talking about? We are comparing a Mac with built in firewire, graphics (in its own AGP), built in sound card or in the new machines optical audio and game controller? USB is my game controller...Using my analysis...I count 1 card...not five.

"that just goes to show that mac software isnt selling very well, if it wasBest Buy would jump on it"

I think that more goes to show that a tremendous amount of Mac software is distributed via the internet or bought online...no need to have expensive and wasteful boxes lying around.

"that blows, who wants to wait for months to see a game come out fortheir computer?"

I don't mind...I work on my computer. I have a PC and a GameCube for my gameplaying problems (although as I get busier with software I am neglecting games).

"they have them, but they ake longer to come out, and to be honest,who wants to wait, and there are so any other programs to use for work onthe computer, other than graphic arts"

Interesting sentence. Have we taken into account the supply of open-source software (you yourself said Linux is good...there is no reason to use Linux without software which we can happily use ont he Mac) or OS 9 software, or Windows software in VPC or heaven forbid the 9000 native Mac OS X apps. Wait, forgot Java too.

"schools have special acquisition opportunities, much different fromnormal consumres, thus, we are able to obtain things before anyone else"

And where are the pics of these machines then? As stated by Apple's head of marketing...big business customers received some G5's last week. School's will receive them at the same time as consumers.

"he handy little box takes you to the 'net and finds the program for you"

Yes that is a handy little box...but I would hate to think what Microsoft are using it for.

" was looking inside of some of our imacs the other day and some of thesilicone that held cables in placehad melted because it got so hot inside thecase, that aint good for your hardware, i dont care what anyone says, heatis the #1 enemy of performance"

Send the machine back. But after being an Apple repair man for a year...I can't recall the inside of an iMac using silicone...instead they used plastic attachment points. I would be seriously worried if they melted.

Actually...heat is not the #1 enemy these days...hard drive speed is. Heat is a problem with the big P4's and Athlons....but definitely not for the cool G5.

"now youre just being childish"

You know, I always find it funny in boards when a user brings out all their achievements. It generally means they are feeling insecure.

So....with that in mind....why did you state them? Do you want me to ramble off my achievements? How does that help? Seriously....I could tell you to not argue the operating system because I am more certified...but what does that do? We are meant to be having a factual conversation backed up by facts.

"that is so cray mr. "ive taken the a+ certification" because 1/4 of thea+ software test is over, wait for it, OS9 and OSX!!!! holy crap mr wizard,bet u didnt know that, did u?"

Good sir, I hate to ask but when did you take that certification exam? I know of no one except Apple that trains in Mac OS X...Mac OS 9 is a different story...but I even doubt X existed when you took it, and you most definitely were not trained in NeXTStep.

"im just stating that i have more computer knowledge and know howthan you, you dont have to get all defensive, young-un"

Childish? Interesting.

Anyways, computer knowledge is useful in its context. If it is taken out of context its useless.

Take driving a car. I can drive a car well...does that mean I am certified to fix the camshaft? No...does that mean I am certified to tell the guy at the garage on how to fix it? No.

"ahh but your replies are stupid, pathetic, and otherwise useless and theonly thing being "tossed" is your BS"

Flying insults? How does that help a factual conversation? How come I did not get a reply to my posts?

Seriously...the only person being childish here is yourself. When you can stand up to the fact that you may be wrong, please tell us. Right now I admit that I may be wrong on some points...but I am willing to hear those points out.

Also....as any adult like ourselves should do...do not attack someone younger. Its rather stupid and immature. Take what he says on face value if you must but do not insult the kid.
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Old 08-21-2003, 02:30 AM   #28 (permalink)
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well here we are once again...


<--with 10.x.x you do not get 2 separate OS, you can open a window of os 9, but it is not bootable


Umm, I hate to break the bad news to you man, but every version of OSX sold to anyone comes with a bootable OS9 system folder installed along with. Whether your Mac can straight boot from it or only classic, in window boot is based on what model it is.

<-this is quite possilby the most laughable thing anyone has ever said to me, linux is the most stable OS to date, that is why every1 and their dog uses it for web hosting

It is not the most stable OS to date. Linux is popular with servers because it is cheap (not everyone can dish out the cash for Windows Server edition or Mac OSX Server), runs fast and is powerful in web applications.

<-- ahh, but the school just purchased 100 licenses for OSX, you think a school can afford all that software + 10 new G5s just for the graphics department?

Since when did 10 new G5's come into the picture? Quark would run just fine on the G4's you say you run... that is of course, if you even have those G4's at all.

b<-- OS9 is a big pile of crap, we are trying to get away from it, but its pretty hard to buy all new software

OS9 is not a big pile of crap. It is just outdated. Its like saying Windows 98 is a piece of crap because XP is better, faster and more stable.

<-- no because if your nic goes out, you have to replace the mobo, not just a $5 nic

Well, Id hope your computer has a warranty on it. Plus, inegrated NIC is the new way to go. Every motherboard that is for sale right now that utilizes a major chip vendor's recent chip will have it. NIC is cheap to add to a mobo, is faster than via the PCI bus when dealing into the hundreds and thousands of megabytes per second (Base 100 and gigabit, respectfully)


<--stay away from all-in-1s pc or mac, i dont care, they both suck

Wow, is that why the imac continues to be one of Apple's strongest sellers and happens to lie in the top spot for best selling computer model ever?


<-- they have them, but they ake longer to come out, and to be honest, who wants to wait, and there are so any other programs to use for work on the computer, other than graphic arts

Wow, thanks for proving my point that there are more programs for macs than just graphics arts programs. Making my life easier.

<-- schools have special acquisition opportunities, much different from normal consumres, thus, we are able to obtain things before anyone else

False! Schools have no special treatment. They get the new hardware when it becomes availible to everyone else. Only big corportate bulk buyers (we're talking hundereds if not thousands of systems) got a piece of the G5 action early. Some how I doubt your school is a big buisness bulk buyer.


<-- the handy little box takes you to the 'net and finds the program for you

Well, isnt that a great feature. Too bad that function doesnt find the program for you on the net. It requires the user's complete input to find the program.

<-- i was looking inside of some of our imacs the other day and some of the silicone that held cables in placehad melted because it got so hot inside the case, that aint good for your hardware, i dont care what anyone says, heat is the #1 enemy of performance

well, nice to see your imac got some breast enlargements. Plus, silicon (which I assume is what you meant) is a type of glass and cannot melt at the petty 40 or 50 degrees celcius that computer parts run at. Also, the #1 enemy of performance is that of mechanical bottlenecking. Memory and CPU's run at millions, if not billions to cycles per second, while mechanical things, like hard disk platters can only run at thousands of rotations a second. Even at peak output (which isnt even close to the 133MBps ceiling) a hard drive can pump out at maximum 60 to 70 MBps. On the other hand, the RAM can fill in amounts expoentially higher (example: 266MHz RAM running on a 1GHz PC would yield around a 2.6GBps fill rate, if not higher at peak output). Data cannot be fed into the RAM fast enough by the hard drive. And there you have mechanical bottlenecking.

<-- i didnt say it had been around for years, i stated that dual 2 ghz processors have been around for over a year

Oh Jesus H. Christ on a crutch, give me a break. Here are you exact words:

"the statement that macs reached 4GHz first is just ridiculous, that was obtained with 2 processors and Intel has the Xeon processor which supports dual procs, and can run up to 3.2 GHz X 2, thats 6.4 GHz!! and that is a few months old now, theyve been at 4GHz for over a year now, rofl"

That sounds like you saying that 3.2 GHz Xeons have a combines clock of 6.4GHz, but that is a few months old and 4GHz individual Xeon chips have existed for "over a year now rofl". Keeping our high school english lessons in the back of our mind, lets think of the rules of grammar. Yes, your comment on 4GHz chips applied to individual Xeon processors according to that statement, not dual 2GHz equaling 4GHz.


<-- now youre just being childish

Oh really? Wow. Maybe the fact that I am a child allows me to do such things and get away with them. Or maybe not. Maybe it is also childish to post flawed information on a tech forum as try and pass it as truth. And dont try to snake yourself out of this one bud, because you cant. Heres another one of your sweet quotes: "these are only some of the facts, i will post more later as i learn more" Key word in there: fact- which none of your points turned out to be...

Just dont get me started on a rant with you. Its just not worth it.



So, A+ certified? Thats great because that teaches you how to use and repair WINDOWS computers. It does not, however, make you the end all know all source for hardware information and does not even entitle you to bash Macs, because neither their hardware, nor OS, are even mentioned in your course
material. It is evident that you are not an Apple certified technician, so I won't even bother with that.

<-- that is so cray mr. "ive taken the a+ certification" because 1/4 of the a+ software test is over, wait for it, OS9 and OSX!!!! holy crap mr wizard, bet u didnt know that, did u?

Wow, thats funny. I could have sworn that the A+ was PC only...

OH WAIT A SECOND! IT IS!
According to the official website of the A+ certification's governing organization, CompTIA, A+ certification is Windows only, and I quote:
"For A+ certification, the examinee must pass both this exam and the A+ Core Hardware exam. This exam measures essential operating system competencies for desktop computer hardware service technician with six months of on-the-job experience. The examinee must demonstrate basic knowledge of Command Line Prompt, Windows 9x and Windows 2000 for installing, configuring, upgrading, troubleshooting, and repairing desktop computer systems." (found that here, along with other information about A+ certification)

Uh oh, looks like someone was lying! Caught you red handed man. Bet you arent even Cisco or Novell certified, either.

<-- im just stating that i have more computer knowledge and know how than you, you dont have to get all defensive, young-un

Hate to break it to you chief, but Ive outmanuvered you at every turn. Mj_1903 has also. Consider yourself beaten and outclassed.

We both expect a quality rebuttle from you. The mod asked me to refrain from personal attacks, so I will do just that. Make it clean and make it quality. I can see you use insults to hide your obvious knowledge deficit and I want that to stop. Show us all the proof of everything you say. Back it up with researchable evidence. Supply a hyperlink to everything you quote as I do.

If you have any integrity or sense of pride in your claimed knowledge then you will have no problem complying to my terms.

That is all.
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Old 08-21-2003, 03:45 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Not to jump into the middle of this, for I have only opinion and personal preference to go by, but I wanted to interject something here

Just a quick note on the school aquisition thing.. I worked for a community college as a computer lab technician and depending on the relationship that the school has with the manufacturer, it is extremely possible to get "first release" items..

We used exclusively PC equipement in the labs and we got win2k advanced server for our server racks at least a month (maybe a little more) before the GM release hit shelves.. Schools (especially colleges) often get first dibs on new hardware and software. Why? I don't know.. Maybe because the manufacturers understand that to have a sales base they have to have a support base and the best way to ensure that is to make sure that schools have the equipment and teach people how to use it before the general population starts using it..

No biggie, just wanted to point that out..

Alexander


:::: Adding this in after reading a bit further -- I was unaware of the statement made by the Officer (I forget who was pointed out) that G5s will be available to schools at the same time as the general consumer. My only point was that, at times, it may be possible, depending on the relationship, that schools may get "pre release" GM versions. ::::
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Old 08-21-2003, 04:22 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by g5orbust

Wow, is that why the imac continues to be one of Apple's strongest sellers and happens to lie in the top spot for best selling computer model ever?
Ok.. I just have to interject on this point too.. Please pardon the pun, but that's kinda like comparing apples to oranges. These numbers are by no means accurate, I am just using them as a reference to "visualize" my point..

Sales
100 Imacs
65 Dells
40 Gateways
35 Compaqs
30 Emachine
15 Hewlett Packard
14 Micron PC
12 Compusa

This is a descent (as far as I can tell) representation.. As you can see.. Yes, Apple sold more Imacs than any other individual computer company, but the total PC market sales far outshadowed the sales of Imacs. So the comment is a bit mute as it provides no meaningful relationship to computer sales in general. Nothing personal, (again pardon the pun) just like to see apples compared to apples.

Ok.. The rest of this goes out to the good gentel that is railing against Macs

On to the certification thing.... Keep in mind I AM A PC PERSON THRU AND THRU and have my own list of certs to fall back on..

An A+ cert and 25 cents will make you a buck short for a cup of coffee... Everyone and their brother has an A+ cert. It is the most common, and the most useless of any certification you can aquire (aside from a MSCE NT 4.0. lol)

Novell.... Um.. In todays network world... Useless.. very few companies use novell anymore and those that do are slowly phasing them out as the break down. They just don't provide the same usefullness in the PC network market as 2k or unix.

Cisco... Fantastic... Great cert... Useless for Macs..

os9? don't know, but the little looking that I have done says it is WAY out of my price range. OSX... Not available to the general public at this point, at least not that I have found.. SOOO.. with those points I challenge you this... Post your cert # and where you took the test.. We can look up the rest..

Aside from the possible OS9 cert (which at this point is somewhat in doubt) there is nothing you have mentioned that makes you an authority on >> WINDOWS BASED PCs << no less an authority on Macs. There are people here that ARE authorities on both (I do not include myself in this statement as there is still a great deal I do not know), but I know enough to state that you seem to be running a bit out of your league.

Alexander
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