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Old 08-19-2003, 04:46 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Yeah.. My 266Mhz PII running windows 98 runs more stable than my win2k machine.. But then again.. the PII system just sits there and holds down that section of the desk.. Which is basically what a Mac does..

If it actually had titles and serious networking capacity then stability would be a viable benchmark.. Since it doesn't.. The comparison from the first sentence applies..

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Old 08-19-2003, 09:29 AM   #12 (permalink)
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the only problem i reckon is compatibility, i like windows machines because of the more programs available, and networking may be better on windows machines, but macs probbably have a better OS; they are very isolated in most cases, out of the way from viruses and hackers, and can have a really good performance.
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Old 08-19-2003, 01:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
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thats a good one, dethangel!
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Old 08-19-2003, 03:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
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All I know is this... People vote with thier checkbooks.. If the Mac was so great it would have taken over market share from Windows based PCs. The free market system works.. Look at Linux. It is slowly taking over. Why? because they finally made it more user friendly ( I am beginning to like Red Hat 9.0 ). In the near future it will be as compatable as Windows for everything and just as easy to use. (read morons can use it too)

People use what works.. Linux is definately more stable than Windows and as it becomes easier to use people will switch because they have a problem with Windows (whatever that problem is).

That being the case.. If people saw that Macs worked better, or faster, or had features that made them superior in some way, they would switch to Macs.. However, it is ENTIRELY the opposite. People switch from Macs to PC all the time because the Mac doesn't do what they need it to do, very few people will go from a PC to a Mac and the people that I know who have gone to Mac, have switched right back.. They aren't last on the list because they are the best computer on the market.. They are last on the list because they are the worst..

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Old 08-19-2003, 04:02 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dethangel
i agree, linux is more user freindly, i love it, its just not as compatible with my software as of yet, but maybe soon...
I would definately not call Linux "user friendly" as you have to have a relatively large technical knowledge base to even use it or troubleshoot for it. But, I would rather say that Linux is what Windows should have been- infinately user customizable and super speedy. Linux lets users do things on their own time, with extreme power and a tailored user interface that has gone through generations of change.

The lack of software and device support and the many variations make Linux a hard platform to choose for anything mainstream. (But, then again, since when was open source computing main stream? ) I think the first sucessful attempt to bring anything open source outside of the geek circles (c'mon, dont tell me Linux is not for geeks- its like saying cattle arent just for ranchers) is Mac OSX. Using familiar things like FreeBSD and a kernal (the Mach Kernal, to be exact), Mac OSX really did make that first successful contact for the open source community with the mainstream computer world.

In my personal opinion, things like Lindows are a step backwards for the open source community. They were introduced too soon and have just as little device support as regular Linux, but look and feel like Windows; making you wonder why you didnt just go buy a copy of XP home and saved yourself the trouble. Conformity like that is exactly what the open source community is against and strives to break away from.
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Old 08-20-2003, 02:05 AM   #16 (permalink)
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ok i don't want to try and turn this into a big debate or anything so I'm going to say this: personal preference

I like the mac's because they are a lot more isolated system, because a lot of it is not customisable it makes it a more stable OS

some of you probbably like PC's because they are a lot better at talking to each other and because so many other people use Windows you want to be able to share things and stuff

If I were to get a Mac G5 i would still have a PC as well for it's compatibility and all

I think they both are excellent systems
Mac = more private and isolated
Windows = better compatibility

what i'm trying to say is there is security versus compatibility, you choose what you like better

and I'm not trying to tell you that you have to like Mac's or anything so don't get me wrong
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Old 08-20-2003, 02:19 AM   #17 (permalink)
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one of the only reasons Windows is a bigger success from Mac is when Apple took Microsoft to court about the "new graphic interface"
Apple claimed they had it first, but it was proved that neither of them came up with it, so Apple lost and people just started using Windows.
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Old 08-20-2003, 03:08 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by dethangel
why not to get a mac:

1) most mac os suck

i just installed OS 9 and OSX on 100 computers at the school i work at and we have had sooooo many problems, they are too many to count

most of the software from OS 9 doesnt work with OSX

who knows what OS they will boot into (we installed them exactly the same way and they all booted differently, rofl

i do like OSX, but only because it is linux-based
(why not just get linux and put it on ur pc?)

2) not upgradeable

have you ever tried to find mac parts? hahaha

have you ever looked in a mac case? you couldnt fit anything else in there, rofl

3) macs comprise a total of 10% of the total computer market (no, pcs dont have the other 90% its like 85% rofl)

what software company in its right mind would release software for a mac first (besides maybe a photo or video editor)

4) ever tried to get some free software for a mac? not going to happen, no one will share their stuff

5) hey all you windows xp users, what happens when you download and open a file that windows doesnt have a program to open?

(us xp users answer)"it pops up a box asking us if we would like to find a program on the web to open the file"

mac users, same question

(mac users)"umm, the system crashes and you have to reboot, and lose all of our unsaved work, plus it can damage the os, forcing us to initialize (format) the hard drive and reinstall"

what answer do you like better?

(btw this was tested using blink videos [the half-life 2 vids] and windows didnt even have to dl a prog to run them, as they are .exe)

6) space

(mac users all say) "hey wait, i know the mnac will win here, they are so much smaller!"

any computer technician in the world (pc or mac) will tell you that the #1 enemy of performance and relaibility is what?

HEAT!!!!

in a small system, with no fan (which most macs dont not have) the heat sits inside of the computer slowly (but not as slowly as a pc) destroying the metal inside of you case, wearing away at the speed and stability of your computer, in this case bigger is better

7) the statement that macs reached 4GHz first is just ridiculous, that was obtained with 2 processors and Intel has the Xeon processor which supports dual procs, and can run up to 3.2 GHz X 2, thats 6.4 GHz!! and that is a few months old now, theyve been at 4GHz for over a year now, rofl

these are only some of the facts, i will post more later as i learn more

take it or leave it, but you will be thinking about it

well, Id like to counter your arguements one by one, if you dont mind.

1) This one doesnt even make sense. "Most Mac OS suck"?

Mac OSX installation is a flawless process (almost idiot-proof). Pop in the disks as directed, press 'continue' and 'ok' a few times and just sit back. Also, newly installed computers automatically boot into OSX, so booting into Mac OS9 is not possible on the first boot into a newly OSX'ed mac (reason: the computer needs to be configured after install for things like registration and internet information-TCP/IP and others). Mac OSX is UNIX based on the Mach Kernal. It is not Linux based, (UNIX is a type of Linux, but they are not the same) nor would having a PC running Linux be anything close to a Mac running OSX.
Also, it is true that some Mac OS9 software does not run in classic mode (AKA, running OS9 in a window within OSX) due to unreconsilable difficulties that were not present while running OS9 on boot, but existed once introduced to OSX through carbon or classic mode. But, this small amount of software is insignificant to the huge triumph it is to run most OS9 programs within an OS flawlessly and most of the programs that classic cannot run have been upgraded to Mac OSX native anyways.

2) Not upgradable? Lets see, on a Mac, you can upgrade processor, RAM, hard drive, optical drive, graphics card and PCI cards, just to name things I can pull off the top of my head. Sound like another, more familiar thing? Oh yeah, a PC.
Couldnt fit anything in a Mac case? Lets see, in the current mirrored drive door G4, you can fit 3 PCI cards, 1 AGP graphics card, 4 hard drives, 2 GB of RAM, two optical drives, and two processors. Sounds like quite a bit to me. And at $1299.99, the price doesnt sound to bad either.

3) Apple is actually fluxuating between 3.5 and 3.7% of the world market share, while Microsoft occupies about 94 to 95%.
Many companies release software for macs first, in conjunction with PC releases, or very shortly afterward. Warcraft 3 is an example for a conjunction release. Adobe products continue to be released either first on the mac or in conjunction with PC counterparts. Most things that are PC only or takes long to get to the mac are high end 3d games like most first person shooters, MMORPGs and the sort.

4) There is tons of free software for the mac made by hundreds of independent developers. Check www.versiontracker.com under the MacOSX section. Also, look at all the .native MacOSX programs here, organized by genre and programming type (carbon, cocoa, etc.)

5) Mac OSX, as well as Mac OS9, has that same dialogue box. Your computers running Mac OS were probably too slow to be able to show you it and crashed. You need the proper computer to run Mac OSX properly. Not any old mac will do.

Also, Bink videos (BINK, not BLINK!) can be viewed in Mac OSX by downloading a simple video player.

6) Show me a mac without a fan (besides the G4 cube, which was intentionally fanless and used heat piping). Please. Do it. I dare you.

7) Apple has not reached 4 GHz. Infact, it hasnt reached 2.1, or 2.5 or even 3 GHz. Only a newbie like yourself would even think that dual processors are added together to form some dual headed, combined power machine. Also, according to Intel, the Xeon only goes up to 3.06GHz in dual proc and 2.8GHz in multiproc (speeds per processor). I see no mention of 3.2GHz (the current speed rating of the highest Intel Pentium 4 chip) a certainly nothing mentioned of anything near 4GHz- a speed only reachable through intense overclocking and cooling processes- and it has definately not been around for "years". Speeds over 2 GHzs aren't "years" old yet, and certainly 3GHz chips aren't either.

Finishing Point:

I just want to let you know that your plans to pass this garbage off as truth have been thwarted. I hope people never listen to you when you talk about computers if this is the type of meaningless crap you give out; during a serious discussion involving people that are actually knowledgable in their fields no less.
May God have mercy on you, everyone here for reading this biased, unresearched crap bomb, and the school you work for.
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Old 08-20-2003, 03:41 AM   #19 (permalink)
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very good points, here's a couple of of mine:
"you don't see too many mac programs in a computer store"
that's if you don't go to a mac shop

as for Mac's not having a fan; they don't need one, their case design lets out all the hot air and cold air comes in
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Old 08-20-2003, 03:43 AM   #20 (permalink)
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and as for Mac's having 3 PCI slots instead of 6, how many people use up 6 PCI slots nowadays? - maybe mac is looking forward instead of keeping the past
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