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Old 03-01-2005, 09:43 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Im definatly going to wait till pci-e is mainstream, and more integrated.
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Old 03-02-2005, 12:12 AM   #22 (permalink)
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They say the AGP slot is crap though as it is a bridge that has slower speeds.
precisely. Any board that tries to incoorperate both would suck.

But yeah a full tower case is really nice. Nice to have room to move around in
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Old 03-02-2005, 11:32 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Nubius

What are you talking about? You saying he should get a 6600GT which is like putting a shiney new cadillac into a run down old barn...
No, I don't think he should get the 6600GT. But I also don't think he should spend $700 for a 20% improvement over his current rig. Given his current set up, he should not buy a new AGP MB. Instead he should just wait until he can afford. I don't think he has any applications that won't run on his system just fine.

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I know they don't make boards with AGP and PCI-E as that'd just be stupid since PCI-E is completely taking over.
I'll make my point by replacing two words in your statement;

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I know they don't make boards with ISA and PCI as that'd just be stupid since PCI is completely taking over.
Why should they make boards that are backwardly compatable? Becuase there would be a market for it and people want to buy new technology while leveraging current assets. If they made such a board, "joeisalsocool" could get a new MB with faster memory and still use his old video card until he can afford a new one. As it stands, joeisalsocool doesn't not have an economical upgrade path. He would have to pay $700 for a 20% improvement and pay that amount again in 6 months.
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Old 03-02-2005, 02:09 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I think your looking too deep into it gsbtech. I'm not one to want the best card out there, or the best technology.
Im am first concerned about getting up to par with todays fast pased games.
I'm certainly not going to spend $700 either. A nice mobo and 512mb of 3200 shouldnt cost more than $150. And on top of that I am going to sell what I currently have. So total, I might spend $75 on a decent upgrade imo.
I can wait until mid or end summer to get the 6600gt (AGP) when prices drop. Then that rig should hold me strong for the next 2 to 3 years, as I am not an avid gamer.

By then PCI-X should be mainstream and more integrated. It would then be a better time to upgrade.

When it comes down to it, getting a nice case now will help down the road when more important upgrades are required.
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Old 03-02-2005, 02:37 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I've never upgraded just a case. I also tend to hold on to my last two systems for alternative OS installs so the ones I dispose go to the dump.

First person shooters give me a headache so I can't advise you on the relative capabilities of your rig versus Nubius' proposal. My favorite game is still AOE II, I still play civ III, and my most demanding game is Neverwinter nights. There are a few fps junkies on this board that can offer better advise on that score. If $300-400 will set you up for two years, and it is not just a %20 upgrade then go for it.

I have a MB with both DDR and SDRAM slots. I have a MB with AGP, PCI, and ISA. I had a MB with SDRAM and 72 pin SIMS. So I am surprised by the lack of AGP on the PCI express boards because it's the first time this has happened since microchannel.
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Old 03-02-2005, 05:00 PM   #26 (permalink)
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But I also don't think he should spend $700 for a 20% improvement over his current rig
Dude, where are you getting numbers like $700. I never said he needed to go out and grab a new AGP based board...even if he did that'd still be good for atleast a year or more inwhich by that time he might be ready to upgrade again. PCI-E or AGP is his decision and $700 is far from what he would need to spend.


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I know they don't make boards with ISA and PCI as that'd just be stupid since PCI is completely taking over.
Ok and that has to do with what? They may have done it previously, but it sure isn't standard practice now. Miller said they do have AGP and PCI-E boards but they pretty much suck having to make a bridge to the AGP so it's not really as efficient as just moving to the next stage.

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He would have to pay $700 for a 20% improvement and pay that amount again in 6 months.
You are not an economy buyer if you're paying $700 a pop and within 6 months paying it again. Again, where you got this kind of idea is beyond me.

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I've never upgraded just a case. I also tend to hold on to my last two systems for alternative OS installs so the ones I dispose go to the dump.
Ok that's you...you can't take YOUR experience and throw it into his. He says he has a freakin microatx case...do you know how cramped those are? He needs atleast good sized case so he'll have room for Full ATX boards for one, and having a good Full tower case is nice because it's easy to remove hardware while leaving it in the case.

You don't play FPS shooters that are fairly up to date with todays gaming standards so why are you telling him what he does or doesn't need? I could tell from the beginning that the setup he's going for, and the path I advised him to go down would set him up for a MINIMUM of a year if not more. Not this "$700 now then $700 again in 6months" idea you seem to have. Right now even his Gf4 Ti would perform better if he got to use PC3200 since he's only using PC2100, severely bottlenecking his system along with the whole 4x AGP aspect

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So I am surprised by the lack of AGP on the PCI express boards because it's the first time this has happened since microchannel.
Thats the point. Quit living in the past and talking about ISA was there along with PCI because that was a whole new generation that we're talking about. It's not as efficient to even attempt today with the power these cards are producing.

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By then PCI-X should be mainstream and more integrated. It would then be a better time to upgrade
PCI-E and PCI-X are two different things BTW
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Old 03-02-2005, 05:17 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Good job clearing things up Nubius.
This thread has seemed to take a differen't path from the top.
Its not even about PCI or AGP, It's about getting a case or the graphics card. I've already decided on getting the 6600gt AGP and the antec p160 case. I just didn't know in what order to get them. Nubius already cleared things up for me. Thanks for everyone else's input too.
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Old 03-02-2005, 05:38 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Nubius
Dude, where are you getting numbers like $700. I never said he needed to go out and grab a new AGP based board...
Top of the line MB, loaded with fast RAM, and high quality graphics can easily run you $700. Read your own post, you recommended a new MB and to wait for prices to go down for the graphics. In order to do that, he'd have to get an AGP board because he'd have to use his current card. If that is not what you meant, I stand corrected but it IS what you wrote.

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Originally posted by Nubius
Ok that's you...you can't take YOUR experience and throw it into his.
Sure I can. That's why we are here. To share our experiences.

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Originally posted by Nubius
You don't play FPS shooters that are fairly up to date with todays gaming standards so why are you telling him what he does or doesn't need?
He never told us his application for the upgrade was FPS. I wrote more than once that it depends on how his current system runs HIS applications and what his needs were. I thought this section was "hardware". I didn't see the part on my browser where it said "first person shooter hardware". I must have missed that - perhaps it's an IE bug. And before you say it, FPS is not the only use for a good graphics card. Video editing and animation comes to mind. Have you ever written a DirectX or openGL application?

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Originally posted by Nubius
Thats the point. Quit living in the past and talking about ISA was there along with PCI because that was a whole new generation that we're talking about.
A technology trend that has been continuous for 20 years is not living in the past. Backward compatability is not an antiquated concept. It is not "stupid" - as you say. Just because the one board that has AGP sucks doesn't mean it has to suck. The younger readers here may not know the history and therefore the novelty of this latest advance in Bus architecture. That novelty is a perfectly valid topic when discussion upgrade paths.

Finally, there is no reason to get all bent out of shape. Your attempt at ridicule and flaming is not conducive to an intelligent discussion. What does one do when the Moderator doesn't obey the rules of the forum he's moderating? I'm dissapointed in you.
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Old 03-02-2005, 06:50 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Top of the line MB, loaded with fast RAM, and high quality graphics can easily run you $700.
Who said top of the line mobo loaded with fast RAM? I said grab some PC3200 and never even said like a 1gb or anything. 512mb of PC3200 = around $70 assuming you get valueRAM which if he's not OC'ing that's all he needs.

Quote:
In order to do that, he'd have to get an AGP board because he'd have to use his current card. If that is not what you meant, I stand corrected but it IS what you wrote.
I believe I also told him, if he would want to wait even longer he could save up enough for a PCI-E based board and a 6600GT PCI-E and buy both at the same time didn't I?

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Sure I can. That's why we are here. To share our experiences.
Sharing is one thing. Applying your experience to what he's doing and assuming it's the same scenario is another.

Quote:
And before you say it, FPS is not the only use for a good graphics card. Video editing and animation comes to mind. Have you ever written a DirectX or openGL application?
Video editing an animation rely less on the graphics card than it does with the rest of the hardware IE CPU and RAM. He clearly stated he was looking at the 6600GT from the get go. An all around good budget card for gaming and whatever else he might need. The card was never up for discussion but rather what order to get it.

Quote:
Finally, there is no reason to get all bent out of shape. Your attempt at ridicule and flaming is not conducive to an intelligent discussion. What does one do when the Moderator doesn't obey the rules of the forum he's moderating? I'm dissapointed in you.
Right, must be a new IE plugin that you have where you can sense the tone of my voice through text huh? Trust me, if I were getting 'bent out of shape' youd know it. I don't know what you consider a 'Attempt at ridicule or flaming' but unless I specifically said 'YOU IDIOT! WHY DO YOU DO THIS BLAH BLAH BLAH!' then you've simply taken a statement and perceived it the wrong way. I've seen and been through a hundred of your type before where you'll throw in this last little tidbit of what's considered "intelligent" conversation so simply put, get over yourself.

As the thread creator said himself, I've already helped him with his problem and given him an idea or two on which path to take. You however seem bent on simply argueing or insisting you're making a better point than I which you're just completely going off the original path. I've dealt with plenty of people like you before and no doubt I'll deal with them for some time to come.

If you wish to continue this little cherade of back and forth arguements then have fun because the thread owner has gotten the info he needed so you are of no importance to me. If you have info for the thread owner, so be it. Other than that, Good day
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Old 03-02-2005, 07:07 PM   #30 (permalink)
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This is exactly what I sait earlier. I've already decided on an AGP. I just wanted to know what order to get them in. I didn't even say anything about PCI-E. You guys are wierd.



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