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Old 06-02-2005, 12:47 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally posted by dale5605
That's a pretty bad example to make your case. For one you aren't forced to upgrade, you can run the game on your ati just fine while hurting a few fps here missing out on the option for a few eye candy there.
Secondly, those people that spend a lot of money to always have the latest graphics and all the eye candy are going to upgrade anyway, whether or not their old card is really lacking, because they just want the latest and fastest stuff. By the time PS3 games actually start becoming more prolific those people will already have their x900 xt pe's installed (most likely with ps3).

And I guess some people may feel like they wasted their money, I don't, but then again like you say I did my research, no regrets for me. I knew exactly what I was buying, the best video card I have ever owned. I dunno I just like the card a lot, maybe my mind will change when they start making aao on ps3, but by that time my vid card will be getting outdated and I'll be turning off all the eye candy I can to save every scrap of fps.

But I really am curious if you all can tell the difference. You preach playing games in their "full glory" but can you really tell that big of a difference in those splinter cell screenshots? To me they look identical so I don't think one is "full glory" and the other one is "crap." So either those eye candies aren't the biggest since since sliced bread like everyone is making them out to be or I have very bad eyesight from so many hours of aao.
At this moment PS 3.0 is not fully utilized yet so you only see subtle difference but most people are basing this PS 3.0 argument on Lost Coast and that we will have to see. Most difference is on performance side right now but I am pretty sure you will be able to tell more of a difference in upcoming games. I can also see difference with the games now. Its not like comparing DX7 to DX9 but its there. But just think about it. You buy a videocard now that is $500. You expect the card to last for four years. PS 3.0 games are already starting to come out. All Valve games will have HDR from now on so lets use HL2: Afterlife for example. Many people who buy a $500 GPU EXPECTING it to play in full settings. Those who did not do research buy the X850XT expecting this because it is ATI's current flagship card. When HL2: Afterlife comes out they find out they can't play full settings. They will feel cheated. You have to remember I said the buyers should DO research. You did your research and you found the X850XT satisfactory for your needs. But I know people who even bought a X800XT not X850XT who did not do research at least enough to know what PS 3.0 is. So now that they find out they feel cheated. They are not the type of people who like to spend $500 on a GPU every year. No one can hold ATI liable because afterall it is a consumer purchase decision but to them tehy feel post purchase dissonance. I'm not saying this is you but I also know people who try to convince themselves they bought the right solution even though they feel post purchase dissonance. Of course PS 3.0 is only one thing. The X850XT will still play most Direct3D games better than Nvidia solution so PS 3.0 is not end all be all. But that is not my point, my point is that I know a few people who recently bought a GPU X800 and up who are now feeling post purchase dissonance. Many of them being HL2 fans citing Lost Coast as the main reason for motivating their post purchase dissonance. Of course one can also ask why didn't ATI put PS 3.0 in the X850XT anyways? I can understand not putting it in X800. In truth, X850XT isn't really a full next-gen card it is like DX9.0b. 6600 and 6800 are DX9.0c. If I'm wrong someone please correct me. I cannot say how you feel. If you're satisfied with your purchase then that is good. It is not any of my business anyways but I can tell you I know quite a few unsatisfied customers and truthfully most of the blame is really themselves. Many of those same people will now be tempted to "upgrade" because they want to play games like Lost Coast in its "full glory". Many of them are bitter because they chose their solution over another which they later find out can. As far as PC hardware innovators many of them will feel post purchase dissonance. Yes you're right in two years they will probably replace what they have now may it be X850XT or 6800 Ultra. It is their "behaviour" but to many of them in the present, some if not many will feel that buying a 6800 Ultra would have been a better solution because they can't play SM 3.0. Afterall, they want to be leading edge. To them a subtle difference is just as visible as a major difference. Playing Lost Coast with SM 2.0 is not leading edge.

Here are some examples of differences:

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NjA5LDE=

Specs

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/winhec...30_NVIDIA.mspx
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Old 06-02-2005, 01:22 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by hu_xu
Those who did not do research buy the X850XT expecting this because it is ATI's current flagship card. When HL2: Afterlife comes out they find out they can't play full settings. They will feel cheated.
That's nothing compaired to some MMOLRPGs that I have seen.
Ever looked at the published specs for STAR WARS GALAXIES? After all the updates, you know need DOUBLE of what they have still have published on sit of the box for System Requirements.
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Old 06-02-2005, 01:25 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Harper
That's nothing compaired to some MMOLRPGs that I have seen.
Ever looked at the published specs for STAR WARS GALAXIES? After all the updates, you know need DOUBLE of what they have still have published on sit of the box for System Requirements.
Yeah that was BS from LucasArts. But they were deep in financial hole and Galaxies and KOTOR series was suppose to revive them. I think they did that on PURPOSE to move more units. That is a conspiracy theory of course.
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Old 06-02-2005, 01:30 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Very good post, hu_xu. AAO is a DX8.1 game, and ATI does dominate in DX8.1 i have to say. Since all dale plays is AAO, the X850XT is obviously the best choice for him. However, those of us that want to play games with the most demanding graphics, a true DX9 card with PS3.0 support.

I will likely buy one of the new generation cards as soon as they come out because I want to be able to play "The Lost Coast" with all the visual effects. I also want a card that will be able to play games like FEAR and STALKER with all their glory as well, which once again will require SM3.0.

I could play them now, and the graphics in "The Lost Coast" would look like any other HL2 level, but this is supposed to be more than that. So far, only the GeForce 6 series will have the capability to play "The Lost Coast" with all its eye candy. Hopefully the X900XT will be out around that time so not all ATI users are alienated. STALKER will only run in DX8.1 mode for ATI X800/X850 users, and FEAR will likely be the same.
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Old 06-02-2005, 01:56 AM   #45 (permalink)
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i didnt have to upgrade for BF1942 and i didnt have to upgrade for Doom3 OR farcry OR half-life2 and i still have the same card (5600ultra) and i still run on high graphics on high res. BTW i dont use AA or AF cause i think its a lil much considering high res and stuff. if you ABSOLUTELY need it then dont complain and buy the top of the line card. if you can only afford a cheap card then dont complain if you cant use the extra eye candy. i can play those games on high setting w/ my "****ty DX9 card" but it still looks good and plays good cause i dont NEED AA or AF. where PS3.0 is concerned anybody who payed all that dough to get a X850XT or w/e is really gonna feel dumb when games like Unreal3 and Oblivian come out. Nvidia guys who payed the money to get PS3.0 cards are gonna sit on top smilin cause they made a good choice and you guys are gonna feel dumb for payin MORE to get less.
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Old 06-02-2005, 02:59 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by hu_xu
Yeah that was BS from LucasArts. But they were deep in financial hole and Galaxies and KOTOR series was suppose to revive them. I think they did that on PURPOSE to move more units. That is a conspiracy theory of course.
I would have to disagree with you there on your conspiracy theory. When I started playing SWG, my Duron 1300, 256Mb Ram, GF4 MX420 could handle playing the game. Okay. Theire might of been the occassional drop out when entering magor cities and other crowded areas, but that was about it.

About 3 months latter, Jump To Light Speed came out, plus many other upgrades and publishes. When that happenned, my Duron 1300 did not want to even know about SWG. Even after up grading to a DURON 1700, it was not until I put in the GF FX5200 128Mb and 1Gb Ram was when I was able to play the game on that box again.

Helps if you have 1Gb of Ram for that game.

Quote:
Originally posted by P.P. Mguire
i didnt have to upgrade for BF1942 and i didnt have to upgrade for Doom3 OR farcry OR half-life2 and i still have the same card (5600ultra) and i still run on high graphics on high res.
Of course you would not have to upgrade, you had beefy video card to start off with.
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Old 06-02-2005, 04:38 AM   #47 (permalink)
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this card beefy?!? HA!! its at the bottom of the todom pole besides a 5200 lol. I just beef it up w/ this kinda crap!
http://www.frozencpu.com/vid-18.html
Yea i bought that today and just got it installed tonight (3:32 AM!!:amazed: ) but of course i only payed 30$ for it and it seems to work well and looks really spiffy. but really though this DX9 card outperforms DX8.1 cards but on DX9 HA it sux. i dont have any idea why i performs so well on games like Doom3 and all. but it does quite fine!
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Old 06-02-2005, 06:45 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by P.P. Mguire
this card beefy?!? HA!! its at the bottom of the todom pole besides a 5200 lol. I just beef it up w/ this kinda crap!
Beef for it's time at initial release. I know it yesterday's news now.
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Old 06-02-2005, 08:25 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Harper
I would have to disagree with you there on your conspiracy theory. .
That is why it is only a theory. I haven't played Galaxies much although I do know one friend who has it but he prefers WoW. I'm not too into MMORPG although I do find Matrix Online interesting.
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Old 06-02-2005, 03:11 PM   #50 (permalink)
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PP, I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing you. I cant play farcry or HL2 above medium settings, with or without AA/AF. I cant even get to medium on far cry (thats because my card is unsupported).

I'm sorry, but if you can play all that on high and I cant with my 6600GT, then I think I'm going to have to kill myself, because I just wasted a buttload of money.
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