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Old 02-21-2006, 08:46 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Yeah, but didn't some guy get a 23sec superpi 1m run with a 2.7GHz conroe? It takes an athlon 64 overclocked to roughly 3.6ghz to get 23sec. And dothan is the core the pentium m's use, yes they are very good, but I thought that conroe was based off dothan or something?
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so, umm, err yeah
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Old 02-21-2006, 08:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Intel cores have traditionally excelled more in SuperPi consider that is nothing but number crunching with large values which benefits from the hyperthreading capabilities and the larger ondie cache accompanied with the P4

I fail to see how someone was able to get their hands on a Conroe at this stage with a release date but if you could direct me to that I will gladly take a look

I know for a fact Intel holds all the SuperPi records though

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And dothan is the core the pentium m's use, yes they are very good, but I thought that conroe was based off dothan or something?
It is...hence why I don't understand the hype that is being associated with Conroe. The only real disadvantage to the Dothan and Banias were the limited desktop compatibility options and the fact that they a tad pricey, but they have been around for well over a year now yet people have continually suggesting that Intel has crashed and burned this past generation. I ask quite simply what the sudden change of heart is and why people are NOW making assumptions about a non-existant architecture when an already existing architecture which is what the Conroe is based off of has been availible for so long with so little enthusiasm from the people are now worshipping conroe
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Old 02-21-2006, 08:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Not to mention Dothan doesn't offer 2.4GHz Dual Cores for $315. And the Dothan is a pain the the backside to get as a desktop.
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Old 02-21-2006, 08:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
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ITs all before the actual release. Stop speculating ppl and actualy wait until the real deal comes out. THEN benchmark and put them to the test to see whos really the better one.
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Old 02-21-2006, 09:00 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by gaara
I ask quite simply what the sudden change of heart is and why people are NOW making assumptions about a non-existant architecture when an already existing architecture which is what the Conroe is based off of has been availible for so long with so little enthusiasm from the people are now worshipping conroe
Because the pentium m's can only be used in laptops, and I know asus makes some kind of adaptor that lets you use one in a desktop pc, but it only works on 1 motherboard and you are limited to the special heatsink that comes with the adapter. I'll look for that 23sec run...

edit:
here's the link:
http://www.oc.com.tw/article/0601/re...le.asp?id=4895
I was wrong, thats on the yohna core, not conroe. but thats still amazing. It's in a different language, but just look at the graphs.

also:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ghlight=conroe
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Old 02-21-2006, 09:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Been saying for ages that high latency DDR is not a good combination with a low latency point to point bus regardless of clock frequencies
The one big question here is this bug in the memory controller. This review appears to have a chip with the bug, so I would have to guess that once that is corrected, Rev. F chips will indeed end up beating Rev E. But, at the same time, it does not appear by much.
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I also think people are highly overestimating Conroe and it's derivitives
I would have to agree to a point, but it will definitely be a big leap for Intel nonetheless.
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as I've also been saying all along they're going to get killed by the reliance on the external memory controller and the resulting I/O bandwidth limitations from it which is where AMD is going to pick up huge ground
The external memory controller is definitely an issue, but I would definitely not say 'killed.' As you mentioned here:
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furthermore I fail to see what speculation there is with Conroe considering I've also been insisting for months that people read up on dothan...DOTHAN
Look at what Dothan has done with extremely limited bandwidth. A dothan in some benches beat a single core A64 clock for clock and this is with very low FSB compared to what Conroe will have. Many of the even highly OC'd Dothans were still only in the low to mid 200'sFSB. We will surely see 400+ even 500+ FSB with Conroe which will substantially increase bandwidth.

On another example, we do already have some Yonah benchmarks, and it has also done extremely well, also with a lower FSB than Conroe will have. So, while I agree that using the external memory conroller is not optimal, I really don't see it 'killing' the performance.

Lastly, there is definately still room for speculation with Conroe since it is far from just a desktop dothan, or even Yonah for that point. For example:

Improved decoder. Theinq.org hints to Macro-op fusion which meen that if you have a multiply followed by an add, Macro- op fusion can turn that into a multiply and Accumulate.
4-issue core instead of 3-issue in Yonah.
Better FPU which can handle two 64-bit fpu-operations per cycle (128-bit SSE2/SEE3/SSE4).

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Yeah, but didn't some guy get a 23sec superpi 1m run with a 2.7GHz conroe?
That was Yonah, not Conroe.
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Old 02-21-2006, 09:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
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WE WANT CONROE!
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Old 02-21-2006, 09:16 PM   #18 (permalink)
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2.4Ghz Dual Core for $315. *Drool*

And thats without overclocking
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Old 02-21-2006, 11:01 PM   #19 (permalink)
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idiotec I think you misunderstood, I'm not saying that conroe is going to flat out suck as that turn me into the very type of people I hate here () but I'm just saying that the IMC implication is what could of made the difference between MAYBE being the better core and ABSOLUTELY being the better core, or at least in IMO

And I know Dothan is fabulous with IMC capabilties otherwise I wouldn't plug it so often ...but the added I/O bandwidth comes from the simply faster FSB and DDR speeds to compensate for no IMC, now that AMD has those faster DDR speeds I don't know how they'll compare to Intels however I still believe that DDR2 will hurt HTT more than it'll help it
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Old 02-21-2006, 11:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
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The only real advantages of Socket AM2 now seem to be:

- future proof for future CPU's that hopefully will perform better
- DDR2, if and when it outperforms DDR by a large enough margin to make DDR2 worth buying
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