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Old 01-24-2006, 07:10 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally posted by P.P. Mguire
Eh dude your mistaken. The X1900 technicaly has 48 pipes due to the architecture of the pipelines. Im sure that ATI has it this round.
before the card came out everyone brought that up but they said it didnt count

From another thread

quote:The R580 has 48 pixel processors, or should we say pixel shaders, while it still has only sixteen pipelines.

From your own source.

I said that from day one, to H3LL with all the Unified Shader Architecture BS

if the website says it has 16 pipes then it has 16 pipes
untill it says 48 then its 16 to me

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Old 01-24-2006, 07:44 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Says right there it has 48 Pixel pipelines

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Old 01-24-2006, 08:10 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally posted by æArchOAngelæ
i think the 7800gtx still wins, mostly because i dont like ati, also the gtx still has more pipelines
ok all I have to say to that is just ... wow ... Allow me to quote the last two pages of the review
Gameplay Evaluation Summary:

Quake 4

In Quake 4, the new Radeon X1900 XT and XTX provide a performance increase over the Radeon X1800 XT. We were able to have Adaptive Anti-aliasing and High Quality AF enabled at 1600x1200 with the X1900 XT and XTX. With the previous top-end card, the X1800 XT, we were not able to have Adaptive AA or HQ AF enabled. Not just that, but even with them enabled performance was still higher in Quake 4 with the X1900 XT and XTX versus the X1800 XT.

Now, it is arguable whether Adaptive AA or High Quality AF provides the best image quality in Quake 4. There are not a lot of alpha textures in the game that show noticeable aliasing, which is due to the dark environments in the game. We did not notice anything that jumped right out at us showing an image quality improvement. High Quality AF, on the other hand, can show more of an improvement; there are high quality textures in use in Quake 4 and being able to have proper AF on all angles helps provide better texture quality.

We also experienced a major bug in Quake 4 with Ultra Quality enabled on the ATI cards. ATI is aware of the problem and they are working on a fix. Ultra Quality automatically enables 8X AF, which further improves texture quality noticeably in the game. The GeForce 7800 GTX 512 was capable of this so that benefit was there. The X1900 XT and XTX performed similarly to the 7800 GTX 512, but the 7800 GTX 512 was also running at Ultra Quality with 8X AF; therefore, it was running at a higher image quality level. It will be interesting to see how Ultra Quality performs on the X1900 XT and XTX once this bug is fixed.


By far, F.E.A.R. provided the largest improvement in performance for ATI’s latest batch of cards. The Radeon X1800 XT allowed 1280x960 with 2X Adaptive AA and 16X AF. Once we installed the X1900 XT and XTX, however, we saw an incredibly large performance boost in F.E.A.R. We were now able to play the game at 1600x1200 with 2X Adaptive AA and 16X High Quality AF. In F.E.A.R., the Radeon X1900s are able to run 1600x1200 with AA, and that makes them stellar performers. 1600x1200 is a very demanding resolution in F.E.A.R., and this is the first time a single video card has been able to run it at these settings with smooth gameplay performance.

The X1900 XT and XTX clearly provided a better gaming experience than both the GeForce 7800 GTX 512 and 256 in F.E.A.R. Not only are you able to run at a higher resolution, but you can also enable High Quality AF. F.E.A.R., like Quake 4, has some very high quality textures, and the ability to run this game with angle independent AF provides great image quality.

Serious Sam II

We were blown away with the HDR performance of the X1900 XT and XTX in Serious Sam 2. Amazingly, we were able to run at 1600x1200 with 4X AA enabled, as well as HDR and 16X High Quality AF with very playable performance. This is a first; even the X1800 XT couldn’t muster these settings with HDR enabled. The GeForce 7800 GTX 512 and 256 are not able to do HDR with AA. This is another feature that is arguably advantageous in Serious Sam 2. We really haven’t come across a major gameplay reason to have HDR enabled in Serious Sam 2. It does not provide an iris effect; it does not really do much except attenuate the bloom on objects making them a little brighter. The fact that the X1900 XT and XTX are so fast at running HDR in this game is a good enough reason to enable this image quality feature.

Need for Speed Most Wanted

Like F.E.A.R., we saw a very large performance improvement in Need for Speed Most wanted with the X1900 XT and XTX over the X1800 XT. This game is shader intensive—especially with “Overbright” and “Visual Treatment” turned up to “High” With the Radeon X1800 XT, we found 1280x1024 with 4XAA and 16X HQ AF playable. However, with the Radeon X1900 XT and XTX, we were able to take it up to 1600x1200 with 4XAA! This was a very large performance increase and we were impressed. The game was very smooth and looked great. Since this game is set outdoors with roads and hills that have a lot of angles, having High Quality AF enabled helped a great deal with filtering at all the angles.

The GeForce 7800 GTX 512 was equally as fast and playable at the same quality settings as the X1900 XT. The X1900 XT was faster than the 256MB 7800 GTX allowing for a higher AA setting and faster performance.

Call of Duty 2

This very graphically demanding game was a piece of cake for the Radeon X1900 XT and XTX. They both allowed 1600x1200 with all settings in the game at their highest settings. In this game, we actually found that there was a noticeable performance difference between the X1900 XTX and XT. The X1900 XTX was playable with 4X AA at 1600x1200, but in order to get playable performance on the X1900 XT, we had to drop to 2X AA. However, we were able to have High Quality AF enabled, which really helps with image quality in Call of Duty 2 on textures.

The GeForce 7800 GTX 512 seemed to be right on par with the X1900 XTX in Call of Duty 2 at 1600x1200 with 4X AA. The GeForce 7800 GTX 256MB video card seemed to be slower than even the X1900 XT.

EverQuest II

There was a nasty bug in EverQuest II that didn’t allow us to enable anti-aliasing on the X1800 or X1900 video cards. It is a shame really, because we know the cards are fast enough to run with Adaptive AA at 1600x1200. Hopefully ATI can work this out. The tests did show us though that the X1900 XT and XTX are indeed faster than the X1800 XT. Being able to run at High Quality AF also helps EverQuest II since it is a slower paced game with a lot of outdoor textures with varying angles on objects.

Battlefield 2

All video cards tested in this evaluation performed very well by allowing us to set 4X AD AA at 1600x1200. In CrossFire mode, we were treated to an incredible 6X AD AA on the X1800 XT and X1900 XT CrossFire platforms. This provided a very large performance improvement over the GeForce 7800 GTX 512 SLI setup, which does not have an in-game option for higher AA. In addition, having High Quality AF shows an improvement in texture quality with the ATI cards since this is an outdoor game.

The Sims 2

In The Sims 2, we also experienced a very high level of gameplay. The X1900 XT and XTX were faster than the X1800 XT. We were able to have Adaptive AA and High Quality AF enabled on the X1900 XT and XTX at 1600x1200. CrossFire did provide better performance by allowing us to increase the AA settings to 4X on the X1900 XT, and it also improved X1800 XT performance. The GeForce 7800 GTX 512 single and SLI setups did seem to edge out the X1900 XTX in this game, however.
Overall Summary:

ATI set out to improve shader performance and they have been very successful in their goal. We are very impressed with the performance improvements we have seen today over the Radeon X1800 XT. We are most impressed with the F.E.A.R. and Need for Speed Most Wanted improvements. We know that in F.E.A.R., 1600x1200 is not an easy resolution to achieve with all the effects in the game maxed out. F.E.A.R. does per pixel everything—lights, shadows, etc.— and because of this, higher resolutions equate to more pixels, which makes it harder it is for the video card to render. Until now, we haven’t had a single video card that was able to run F.E.A.R. smoothly at 1600x1200 with 2X AA. Well, the X1900 XT and XTX can not only run it at that resolution, but they can also run it with Adaptive AA and High Quality AF enabled to boot.

We also saw a very large improvement in Need for Speed Most Wanted. Until now, the GeForce 7800 GTX 512 was holding the crown for performance in that game. With everything enabled, the game uses a lot of shaders and an HDR-like bloom effect, which just eats up video card performance—especially at 1600x1200 with AA. The Radeon X1800 XT was playable at 1280x1024 with 4X AA. With the new Radeon X1900 XT and XTX, we found 1600x1200 to be playable with 4X AA, as well as High Quality AF with frame rates above 30 FPS. That’s a large image quality improvement.

Those were not the only two games where we saw a performance improvement; the X1900 XT and XTX performed better than the X1800 XT in all the games we used in this evaluation. This better performance allowed us to improve the image quality either by raising the resolution or AA level, or by enabling Adaptive AA and/or High Quality AF. These features can greatly improve your gaming experience, and the X1900 XT and XTX can do them well.

Image Quality:

In fact, we found that the High Quality AF option is one of those features that you can simply enable with the X1900 XT and XTX. It’s a given! It’s the year 2006 now; we are at a point where Anisotropic filtering should be a given, and it should be a given that it operate at the highest visual quality possible.

Editorializing a little bit here, I would like to see the Anisotropic slider in the control panel and in games disappear. There really should be only 2 options regarding Anisotropic filtering: There should be “Off” and there should be “On.” When you turn it on, it should operate in every game at 16X with High Quality AF. There is no reason not to have AF enabled in today’s games with today’s video cards. The only quality setting we should really be worrying about these days is anti-aliasing. I hope that one day we see AF as a given where it is always on, at the highest level, at the best quality.

As it stands right now, however, the X1900 XT and XTX can run with the highest AF level that the game supports with High Quality AF enabled. There are a lot of games where having this angle independent quality setting helps a lot. The games it most helps in are games that have outdoor scenes where there is topology that has a lot of angles. We find this characteristic in Call of Duty 2, Need for Speed Most Wanted, Battlefield 2, EverQuest II, and many other similar games that need the best filtering quality. EverQuest II is a good example of this because it is a game where you stand around a lot performing tasks instead of focusing on other players. In these types of games, you are more likely to notice texture quality as you move throughout the game.

Shader Performance:

If F.E.A.R. and Need for Speed Most Wanted are any indication of the shader intensive games we will see this year or next, then the Radeon X1900 XT and XTX seem ready to handle them. We do have some fears though (no pun intended) about the performance. While the new cards from ATI provide a big improvement in some games over the Radeon X1800 XT, it is not a big improvement over the GeForce 7800 GTX 512MB video card.

It is quite clear that the X1800 XT is slower than the GeForce 7800 GTX 512 and the 7800 GTX 512 provides a better gaming experience. With the new Radeon X1900 XT and XTX, the performance these cards provide is now equal to that of the 7800 GTX 512 in most games. F.E.A.R. really is the only game in which the X1900 XT and XTX dominated the 7800 GTX 512. The X1900 XT is really what the X1800 XT should have been; it has just now come up to par with the 7800 GTX 512.

If the rumors are true about the specifications for NVIDIA’s GeForce 7 series refresh product—we may see the X1900 XT and XTX being trounced in the latest games by NVIDIA’s next release. Competition is good, that is for sure, and it benefits the consumer greatly. We are sure ATI is aware of this also and maybe they can squeeze some more performance out of the X1900 XT and XTX with new drivers. We know they have a very efficient and programmable memory controller that can be individually tweaked for games to provide better memory management. Hopefully, ATI will continue on this path and figure out the best way their GPU can run these games and make it happen.

Like we said, F.E.A.R. may just be the first game that really shows what the X1900 XT and XTX can do. We hope to see more games like this that illustrate the hardware’s full capability.

Fancy Features:

That leads us into the next topic, which are the new features ATI is pushing with the X1800 and X1900 series like Dynamic Flow Control and Fetch4. These things are great, but they really are transparent to the gamer. Simply having these features supported in hardware does not provide instant gameplay experience improvements for the gamer. In fact, the game content developer must specifically code their game to take advantage of these features. Now, the Radeon X1800 and X1900 are supposed to handle Dynamic Flow Control very well allowing for performance improvements and easier coding. Fetch4 is also supposed to help with this for shadows. However, we simply haven’t seen any games right now that are using this to provide a benefit to the gameplay experience. We are very truly content limited right now. There are all these great features in the Radeon X1900 XT and XTX, but there are currently no games that are using them. ATI assures us that game content developers are working as we speak to implement these features in upcoming titles. We hear that CryEngine 2 (the next engine being used for the sequel to FarCry) might support Dynamic Flow Control.

2006 has just arrived and it is very hard to get a picture of what the gamescape will be like this year. Our hope is to see graphics features that benefit gameplay. Sure, there are a lot of cool effects they can put into games these days—HDR is a popular one right now— but if these effects are just haphazardly thrown in just to say they support it, then what is the point? We want to see these effects actually benefit the gamer and play into the whole gameplay experience. We want things like HDR light to affect the gameplay, give us spots where we can hide in the shade and not be seen, or give us spots that simply blind the other player with HDR sunlight giving us the advantage to take them out. Dynamic Flow Control, Fetch4, HDR, etc. all sound nice on paper, but they really mean nothing to gamers until they are used to positively influence the gameplay experience.

The Bottom Line:

The bottom line is that ATI has produced an impressive refresh to the X1800 XT. We are very happy to say that ATI has informed us that production is not a problem with this X1900 GPU and that these video cards are everywhere now for people to purchase. Timely availability has really been ATI’s main problem recently. ATI had some very impressive technology in the recent past; it was just that no one could buy it in the right timeframe. It seems ATI has turned the tables and provided the hardest launch we have ever seen—video cards that were actually available and in people’s hands before the card was even announced! While not official, that’s as hard as it gets folks; let’s hope ATI can maintain these hard launches and provide products the day of launch.

If you want the fastest performing video cards right now that provide the highest level of image quality in games, it doesn’t get any better than the Radeon X1900 XT and XTX. You get High Quality AF, Adaptive AA, HDR with AA, and very fast shader performance. If you have been waiting to play F.E.A.R. at very high quality settings, your wait is over; the Radeon X1900 XT/XTX is the card for you.
so, umm, err yeah
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Old 01-24-2006, 08:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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This is a more acurate impression

The only thing that got me a lil was the prices for the "exact video card" the only thing that changed are the last words?!?!
I would be grateful if someone tell me whats wrong there or was wrong with me .
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Old 01-24-2006, 08:31 PM   #15 (permalink)
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i posted that before i realized it had 48 pipelines, and im still an nivdia fan which i said earlier, and i was going by this article
it stated it only has 16 pipelines and newegg said it only had 16 pipelines, i figured if theyre selling them they want to state the correct information
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Old 01-24-2006, 08:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
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it only uses 16 pipes a clock or something like that i cant remember how the article explained it
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Old 01-24-2006, 08:56 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Lower the @$%%$&*#$$# flag....Let us all bow our heads...and pretend to be serious.

Don't worry, Nvidia will come out with a 9200G-XT w/96 pipes (keyless entry for unlocking), 2G of memory, a quad turbo-charger, RAM AIR, Liquid Nitrogen Cooling, and NOS. Your entire house will dim because of the power usage and your monitor will become the MATRIX that will actually eat you for true video game submersion. SLI recc'd for experts only.

ATI blows...
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Old 01-24-2006, 09:44 PM   #18 (permalink)
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^^ That was dumb. Arch, architecute is everything nowadays. Sometimes you cant just look at "oh well it has 16 pipes so it suclk". If that was the case then id look at the dual gpu 7800GT and say thats better than anything cause it has 2 gpus on one board. It just dosent work that way.
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Old 01-24-2006, 09:54 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I still believe ati made a dumb decision, nvidia is coming out fo teh G71 core, nvidia will yet again be the single card leader, ati will have it's glory for a little while, but when the G71 comes bye bye x1900, hello 7900 or whatever it is.

Oh and in that gamespot review it's not really fair comparing crossfire, x1900 to 7800GTX 256mb SLI, i bet if they were to put a 7800GTX 512 SLI would still beat out the x1900 in crossfire.
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Old 01-24-2006, 09:59 PM   #20 (permalink)
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go to they have a fair review and it shows that the x1900 beats out the 7800gtx 512 in almost every game.

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