Upgrading processors. AMD Quad Core. Why buy 965? Is 940 a better choice?

[RichM499]

I am considering upgrading to an AMD Quad Core Phenom II processor. I was thinking of getting a Phenom II x4 940, but then I started to think. Would the overclockability be any better with a 965? I thought 940 and 965 were pretty close to the same chip.

What should I do? Save $55, get a 940 and hope it overclocks well. Or spend $55, get the 965, and hope it shows better results than most 940s would have.

My goal is 3.8ghz minimum. I am running this dual core @ 3.72ghz @ 1.425vcore stable currently, and I run a lot of, ehm, programs that require high frequency and don't take advantage of multiple cores.

Please give me your advice.

Thanks in advance,
Rich

 

[Yami]

The 965 is a Black Edition, meaning that it has an unlocked CPU Multiplier - will this doesn't necessarily make OCing easier (it can and can't do), but it does give you more options.
You should be able to hit 3.8GHz fine with either chip, though obviously it will be easier with one already clocked higher.

You could always go midway and get the 955.

 

[RichM499]

The 965 is a Black Edition, meaning that it has an unlocked CPU Multiplier - will this doesn't necessarily make OCing easier (it can and can't do), but it does give you more options.
You should be able to hit 3.8GHz fine with either chip, though obviously it will be easier with one already clocked higher.

You could always go midway and get the 955.

Well both chips are black editions actually. The 940BE and 965BE are the ones I am looking at on newegg. Here's a link.
Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ965FBGMBOX
Newegg.com - AMD Phenom II X4 940 Black Edition Deneb 3.0GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ940XCJ4DGI - Processors - Desktops

Why would overclocking be any easier with a higher stock frequency? I don't plan to use the Multi and push it 100mhz at a time until it pops. I actually plan to mostly use the FSB to overclock.(or HT link or whatever you want to call it these days)

I noticed just now that the Phenom II x4 940 is an am2+ processor, which means it doesn't have a DDR3 memory controller and would make for a bad choice as I plan to upgrade to a nice 890gx or 890fx motherboard soon.
So then the question becomes.
Why would a higher stock frequency increase overclocking capability?
Why should I buy a Phenom II x4 965 over a Phenom II x4 955.
What about the Phenom II x3 720? Almost all of the reviews on NewEgg are giving positive feedback on unlocking the core. Although, from first hand experience, I can tell you that these people are most likely not properly testing their processors to ensure stability.

 

[Yami]

Oh right. Definitely go with the 940, then.

100MHz at a time is far too much, I'd say 25MHz is much more sensible after about 3.6GHz (and then increase by less and less as needed).

Why would overclocking be any easier with a higher stock frequency?

It's slightly easier because it's already closer to your 3.8GHz goal, but I wouldn't say $55 easier.

 

[RichM499]

100MHz at a time is far too much, I'd say 25MHz is much more sensible after about 3.6GHz (and then increase by less and less as needed)

My point was that you mentioned overclocking with a multiplier. The stock FSB on these things is 200mhz, and the multipliers go up by 0.5, which equates to 100mhz.

Example: 200x16 = 3200mhz. 200x16.5 = 3300mhz.

This is why I mentioned that I would be mostly using the FSB. Another reason for this is that I have heard reports of people seeing a higher clock by using FSB instead of Multi to overclock. Maybe it's rubbish but I'll know myself when I get the chip.

I edited my post, I guess it was a minute before you posted so I'm not sure if you saw, but, the 940 doesn't have a DDR3 memory controller which means I'm not interested. Now it's 955 or 965

 

[farinha]

Get the 955, the only difference is the multiplier value, which is 1 more on 965. Since both chips are back edition if you increase the multiplier by one on 955 you'll get a 965.

 

[RichM499]

Get the 955, the only difference is the multiplier value, which is 1 more on 965. Since both chips are back edition if you increase the multiplier by one on 955 you'll get a 965.

I guess I should have been more specific. I already knew that the cores on these chips are **** near identical. The thing is, I was told (and I read) that the lower end models of the same chip are usually chips that didn't meet as strict a margin as the higher-end chips. What I mean is that:

AMD has 2 chips. Both Deneb cores.
AMD tests these chips. 1 of them is stable at 4.0ghz within their recommended voltage
The other is stable at only 3.9ghz.

The first would be marketed as 965, and the second as 955.

Now, to be fair, I could be completely wrong. I (as well as many of you) truely have no idea what goes on at AMD. This is just from what I have read in various places.

It makes sense though. It means that AMD doesn't have to trash a perfectly good chip because it didn't meet the margin requirements. And it means they save a little money by using chips that would otherwise be thrown away.

This is what I meant when I asked my original question. If this is true then the 965 will clock a bit higher generally, and if it does then I'd be interested in it.

 

[farinha]

Maybe a little but probably not much. I would still get the 955 if I were you.

EDIT: Just checked newegg and the difference between both are $20, so if you're planning to do some extreme OC then the 965 might be worth it.

 

[CalcProgrammer1]

That is likely true. Manufacturers (Intel, AMD, nVidia, ATi, etc) do this to take care of their lower quality products. While certain refinements in manufacturing have improved the failure and defective product rates, not every chip off the manufacturing line is a top notch performer. To compensate for this, chips are tested and then badged into categories (this may be per chip or per batch, not sure). The multiplier locks are most likely put into place after this testing has been completed.

Another thing is that if demand for a lower model is high, manufacturers will sometimes let the good chips slip into the lower model branding to meet the demand.

 

[Fat.Clown]

from the oc database I've seen from OC.net
it's all luck of the draw. I don't think it's worth the $20 premium.

955 BE
955 DB
965 BE
AMD 965 DB