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Old 01-24-2007, 10:17 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Meithan
Let's be realistic: do you really need Anisotropic Filtering at 16X? There are tons of settings that do not bring a marked improvement in graphic quality but cost a lot of GPU resources. Of course one can always get unreasonable and ask most any card to deliver good frame rates at crazy resolutions with the absolute max settings, and it would certainly fail. That doesn't mean it's not a good card.
I wasn't saying the build was bad or the video card wasn't good, But I think you were misleading him a little. Come on guys, Just imagine if he bought the build you recommend and tried to play FEAR or Oblivion at MAX settings or any of the new DX10 games in a year.....

If you tell someone MAX settings, You are saying MAX everything like AFx16 And yes I can see a huge improvement in games with AF set to x16.
check this out.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...lr%3D%26sa%3DN

Sata costs about the same as IDE, how is this a luxury? Why would you want old technology? sata and DX10 are the future.

The monitor you picked out is a LCD with 1280x1024 native resolution, With a LCD monitor you must use the native resolution or else the picture will be blurry. If you want to run new games at MAX settings with that resolution you will need a better graphics card than the x1950pro.

I have a X1900XT 512mb and it struggles to play new games like FEAR, Oblivion, Etc. at max settings. The X1950pro 256mb is lower quality, So I know for a fact, It will struggle even more than my video card. Sure it will play them But, When 10 guys are shooting at you with grenades exploding, smoke billowing and whatnot, the X1950pro would drop down to 15-20 frames per second. (choppy and glitches)

Like I said, the build you picked will play new games at medium to high settings, Not MAX settings.

Quote:
Originally posted by Meithan
(Granted, the DirectX 10 compatibility issue might change the life expectancy of current DX9 card, but he could simply upgrade to another sub-$200 card in a year, and he'll be set, having spent less than buying a $500 card now).
If he buys the X1950pro for $200 now and upgrades to a new $200 DX10 card later, That's $400 bucks, Then he would end up wasting $200 and have a X1950pro paper weight. Don't you think it would be better to just buy the 8800gts for $400 now?

Poon, If you have a computer now, You can re-use the hard drives CD/DVD drives and case to save some money ($100-$200) Then you can upgrade them later without wasting any cash or re-buying new parts.

Good Luck!!
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Old 01-24-2007, 10:37 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Originally posted by DBD

Sata costs about the same as IDE, how is this a luxury? Why would you want old technology? sata and DX10 are the future.

I have a X1900XT 512mb and it struggles to play new games like FEAR, Oblivion, Etc. at max settings. The X1950pro 256mb is lower quality, So I know for a fact, It will struggle even more than my video card. Sure it will play them But, When 10 guys are shooting at you with grenades exploding, smoke billowing and whatnot, the X1950pro would drop down to 15-20 frames per second. (choppy and glitches)
maybe you need to tune your rig, cos with my overclocked 7900gs i max everything out including af and aa, soft shadows and everything and with the in game test maintain a average fps of mid 90's. also with max resolution, which for fear i believe is 1024x728 (although that may be bf2 max res, i can't remember).
when i play online deathmatch i have no issues with my card struggling. my frame rate never drops below 40-45 fps. the only time i struggle is when my wireless internet connection craps out, lol.i don't have oblivion, but i have read that it is a beast, so outcome may not be as good.
if an x1950 pro falls between a 7900gt and a 7950gt, i dont see it having a problem AT ALL with FEAR or BF2. oblivion, like i said, i have no experience with.
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Old 01-24-2007, 02:49 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by DBD
I wasn't saying the build was bad or the video card wasn't good, But I think you were misleading him a little. Come on guys, Just imagine if he bought the build you recommend and tried to play FEAR or Oblivion at MAX settings or any of the new DX10 games in a year.....
Ok, so let's give him a subjective evaluation of the card's performance. Between 0 and 10, 0 being the absolute worse and 10 being the absolute best, what would you rate an X1950Pro?

I'd say an 8.

Quote:
And yes I can see a huge improvement in games with AF set to x16.
check this out.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...lr%3D%26sa%3DN
Lol, you see a difference when a portion of the screen is severely zoomed-in. In practice, unless you spend half of the time staring closely at the screen, you won't really notice a difference in-game. There may be some exceptions to this (large extensions of regular textures, like water surfaces), but lowering the AF won't reduce the overall game experience.

Quote:
Sata costs about the same as IDE, how is this a luxury? Why would you want old technology? sata and DX10 are the future.
I was referring specifically to SATA optical drives. I said it is a luxury because in my experience SATA DVD drives are more expensive than their IDE counterpart. I have to admit, however that the Lite-On drive you suggested is at a killer price. There aren't many cheap SATA optical drives like that, but one is enough. I shall correct my build.

When it comes to optical drives, the SATA interface will not bring any performance gains, since CD/DVD drives are inherently too slow to benefit from the increased bandwidth. However, if SATA optical drives end up costing the same as IDE ones, I see no reason for sticking with IDE. In this case, you're right.

Quote:
The monitor you picked out is a LCD with 1280x1024 native resolution, With a LCD monitor you must use the native resolution or else the picture will be blurry. If you want to run new games at MAX settings with that resolution you will need a better graphics card than the x1950pro.

I have a X1900XT 512mb and it struggles to play new games like FEAR, Oblivion, Etc. at max settings. The X1950pro 256mb is lower quality, So I know for a fact, It will struggle even more than my video card. Sure it will play them But, When 10 guys are shooting at you with grenades exploding, smoke billowing and whatnot, the X1950pro would drop down to 15-20 frames per second. (choppy and glitches).
Well, here I'm confused. I have an XFX 7600GT, and just this morning I ran a couple of FEAR benchmarks with MAX settings:



You can see the graphics are all the way to the max, and that I'm running the game at a 1280x960 screen resolution:



Here are the results:



It may not be the best of the best, but it's playable.... with my 7600GT!! If your X1950XT can't beat this by at least 40%, then there's something seriously wrong with your rig.

I play at 1024x760; at that resolution, the average framerate is 50 FPS, with the min being 27 and the max being 117, which is very acceptable. An X1950Pro should be able to match this performance at 1280x960.

Quote:
Like I said, the build you picked will play new games at medium to high settings, Not MAX settings.
I disagree. I'd say High to Max settings (for current games).

Quote:
If he buys the X1950pro for $200 now and upgrades to a new $200 DX10 card later, That's $400 bucks, Then he would end up wasting $200 and have a X1950pro paper weight. Don't you think it would be better to just buy the 8800gts for $400 now?
No, because the $200 card he buys in a year will probably beat the 8800GTS, or at least be as powerful. You forget the rate at which computer technology advances.

Quote:
Poon, If you have a computer now, You can re-use the hard drives CD/DVD drives and case to save some money ($100-$200) Then you can upgrade them later without wasting any cash or re-buying new parts.
Here I concur with you. CD/DVD drives, cases, keyboards, mouses, monitors and even some hard drives are parts that don't become obsolete quickly. You can recycle them when upgrading.
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Old 01-24-2007, 02:52 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Originally posted by DBD
Sata costs about the same as IDE, how is this a luxury? Why would you want old technology? sata and DX10 are the future.
[/B]
Well sata is only good for hard drives, because harddrive run at faster speeds in which run faster than IDE (I believe). For DVD-Drives they only benefit comes in play is to clear up some case space because of the ribbon. The speed of a DVD drives runs at speeds lower than IDe can go, so it would be wiser just to save the extra money for a IDe Drive. Also it lets you add more hard drives later in the future where files are bigger and storage is scarce. DX10 is the future but no one other than gamers are going to use it. Direct x 10 is grand and all but the price isn't justified for it, on a $1000 dollar budget. If is was more like a $1300 I would but there is no room for confert in his budget. I do see your reason, why spend less and upgrade in a year. Yeah, I am the same way, I like to get the best now so I don't have to buy it later. I always need more money. The only reason I can see is that this amount of money is all he got right now and he wants the best for that.
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Old 01-24-2007, 03:36 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dr DMoney
1.Well sata is only good for hard drives, because harddrive run at faster speeds in which run faster than IDE (I believe). 2.For DVD-Drives they only benefit comes in play is to clear up some case space because of the ribbon. The speed of a DVD drives runs at speeds lower than IDe can go, so it would be wiser just to save the extra money for a IDe Drive. Also it lets you add more hard drives later in the future where files are bigger and storage is scarce. DX10 is the future but no one other than gamers are going to use it. Direct x 10 is grand and all but the price isn't justified for it, on a $1000 dollar budget. If is was more like a $1300 I would but there is no room for confert in his budget. I do see your reason, why spend less and upgrade in a year. Yeah, I am the same way, I like to get the best now so I don't have to buy it later. I always need more money. The only reason I can see is that this amount of money is all he got right now and he wants the best for that.
1. No, SATA Can transfer data faster. But that doesnt mean that it does. Currently ATA 133 and SATA are transfering data at the same speeds because the Harddrive is limited to how fast the read/write head can move.
2.There aren't many Optical drives that are SATA anyways. I only knew of one, and that was a plextor drive, but I can no longer find it on Newegg. Again, The transfer speed is limited by how fast the laser moves and how fast the laser can read read/write data.

Your hit one thing right on the head though, the main reason many people buy SATA Drives is because the Cable is easier to handle and takes up less space. thus allowing more air flow.
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Old 01-25-2007, 07:59 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Meithan, My rig is fine, The X1900XT and the X1950pro are good cards.

When I say max settings, I am referring to the in-game settings and the settings in the video cards control panel. (turned on and set to Quality)

At default, ATIs Catalyst Control Center(CCC) has...
AA and AF set to "let the application decide"
High quality AF is Disabled
Temporal AA is Disabled
Adaptive AA is Disabled
Vsync is off unless application specifies

If I leave the CCC at Default, I can play all the new games with the in-game settings maxed out.

If I turn all the settings in CCC "on" and set to "quality" It will produce a picture of better quality than regular AAx6 and AFx16, Oblivion becomes unplayable and fear will drop to low frames per second at graphically intense situations, BUT the picture quality is magnificent, Everything is super sharp and crystal clear.

BF2 can be played with everything maxed out without ever showing any loss of frames per second.

I hope this clears things up
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Old 01-25-2007, 08:02 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by DBD
Meithan, My rig is fine, The X1900XT and the X1950pro are good cards.

When I say max settings, I am referring to the in-game settings and the settings in the video cards control panel. (turned on and set to Quality)

At default, ATIs Catalyst Control Center(CCC) has...
AA and AF set to "let the application decide"
High quality AF is Disabled
Temporal AA is Disabled
Adaptive AA is Disabled
Vsync is off unless application specifies

If I leave the CCC at Default, I can play all the new games with the in-game settings maxed out.

If I turn all the settings in CCC "on" and set to "quality" It will produce a picture of better quality than regular AAx6 and AFx16, Oblivion becomes unplayable and fear will drop to low frames per second at graphically intense situations, BUT the picture quality is magnificent, Everything is super sharp and crystal clear.

BF2 can be played with everything maxed out without ever showing any loss of frames per second.

I hope this clears things up
I never mess with the video cards control panels settings and my 7600GT still kicks ***.
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Old 01-26-2007, 11:42 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Didn't know about those advanced settings in the ATI Control Panel. I know it's a lot of effort, but could you post a couple of screenshots comparing a scene with and without those settings? I'm curious to see how much it improves.

We're straying too far off topic anyway. The point is that an X1950Pro is one of the best cards one can get right now, and it will serve our friend Poon for quite some time. The card is certainly in the Top 10, wouldn't you agree?
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Old 01-27-2007, 03:04 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Originally posted by Meithan
Didn't know about those advanced settings in the ATI Control Panel. I know it's a lot of effort, but could you post a couple of screenshots comparing a scene with and without those settings? I'm curious to see how much it improves
I took some screen shots but they are to big for my free photobucket account. I have a 22" widescreen and I play games at 1680x1050, But this is my second monitor, I originally had a 19" and I would play games at 1280x1024 with the same results I stated earlier.

Quote:
Originally posted by Meithan
We're straying too far off topic anyway. The point is that an X1950Pro is one of the best cards one can get right now, and it will serve our friend Poon for quite some time. The card is certainly in the Top 10, wouldn't you agree?
Sure I agree with you, The only thing I didn't agree with was, "The X1950pro can run any game at max settings"
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Old 01-27-2007, 08:14 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by DBD

Sure I agree with you, The only thing I didn't agree with was, "The X1950pro can run any game at max settings" [/B]
I disagree with this, I think the X1950 pro can run any game at max settings ( that is out right now ) quite well, provided you of course have the right system for it.
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