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Old 10-22-2011, 03:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Thoughts on this Build?

Digerati, Overclocked_Keyboard understands the concept of Overclocking, and the risks that come with it. He said he won't even be OC'ing for a while anyway. And, unless he plans on running it @stock for the rest of the systems lifespan, an aftermarket cooler is a **** of a lot better than the crappy stock ones. Especially Sandy Bridge stock coolers..
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Old 10-23-2011, 10:14 AM   #12 (permalink)
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And stop bugging everyone about their Windows Licensing, you sound like a Microsoft troll.
No! According to your profile, you are not mod or admin here. If you have a problem with my post, report it and let them do their jobs - but don't launch personal insults - that IS the definition of a troll.

Note, it was AFTER my post he said he would not be overclocking. So please get your stories chronologically straightened out before attacking. I was more than willing to leave this issue at my one post.

FTR, I don't have a problem with overclocking. I first experimented with it over 15 years ago when you had to actually solder jumper wires on the board to change timings. But overclocking is like drinking - it should be done in moderation, responsibly, and with a thorough understanding of the consequences. And since it is a fact most people do not read their CPU warranties, most are not aware of what violates the terms of their warranties.

As I noted, I am just the messenger. If you don't like the message, complain to Intel or AMD about their policies - especially to their marketing departments. But don't try to block forum posters or others reading from learning the facts, and the truth.

As for OEM coolers, note that,

(1) OEM coolers are warrantied for 3 years. Most aftermarket coolers are warrantied for just 1.
(2) If an OEM cooler fails and while unlikely, takes out the CPU, AMD and Intel will replace the CPU too. For this reason, both AMD and Intel provide EXCELLENT coolers, fully capable of providing adequate cooling.
(3) If an aftermarket cooler fails, NO WAY will the cooler maker cover the CPU.

I also point out, it is the case's responsibility to remove heat from the case interior, not the cooler's. In a properly configured case, the OEM coolers are easily capable of providing adequate cooling with "moderate" overclocking. The only real complaint is OEM coolers may tend to be noisier than some (not all by any means) aftermarket coolers. However, noise suppression is a case function too.

And by the way, even though motherboard makers routinely include overclocking utilities with their boards, no motherboard maker will replace the CPU either, should their utility cause damage.

Finally, hardware damage is not the only risk to overclocking and sadly, many overclockers don't have the budgets for two computers, one for critical work, school, banking, etc. and another computer just for play. Overclocking is notorious for causing stability issues, which can and does OFTEN result in crashed hard drives and lost data - data which OFTEN is worth much more than the hardware. And how many people keep current backups of their data? I can't tell you how many computers have come across my bench due to lost data as the result of irresponsible and negligent overclocking - due improper or no homework.

And while Overclocked_Keyboard may be fully aware of the consequence and may be willing to take the risk, forums are "OPEN" places for discussion, where many folks just come by to read and learn. So I write for all, not just one.

So please, don't tell me what I can and cannot say - that's not your job, nor your business. If you want to discuss the facts, we can do that all day long.
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Old 10-23-2011, 11:29 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Thoughts on this Build?

Believe me, I know about losing data to Overclocking. I lost an entire system to it, data and all. I still do it, for the fun part though. The only reason I'm so jumpy about Windows Licensing is because when I bought my copy of Windows 7 Ultimate for my current build, it refused to activate, saying my activation code was invalid. How could this be, I just payed what, $300 on this software that won;t activate?? I called Microsoft, and they said they would help me, for a $60 fee, to cover their mistake. I don't respect Microsoft from a business point of view, so when someone brings up Windows 7 licensing, and activation, I want to throw my mouse at the monitor. I guess with the OEM cooler thing, we could go back and fourth all day, or just agree to disagree. I didn't mean a personal insult by calling you a troll, either, keep in mind we are "on" the internet.
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Old 10-23-2011, 12:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I don't respect Microsoft from a business point of view
Make no mistake, I have had plenty of issues with Microsoft over several of their business and marketing practices and policies myself - before and after becoming a MS-MVP. And be certain, I have shared that with them, in no uncertain terms! But I am also a fan of Microsoft products. Windows 7 is by far, the best Windows yet. IE9 has proven itself secure as any, if not more so, and worthy of any machine. MSE is a great anti-malware solution - and at a price that cannot be beat. Office has no equal.

Security has [finally] become a primary focus at Microsoft and they cannot be faulted in that area any longer. In fact, I trust Microsoft in that regard to keep me, my family and my clients safe (understanding the user is ALWAYS the weakest link). But Microsoft's past monopolistic business practices left a bad taste in my mouth almost 20 years ago as a custom PC builder that to this day, causes me to "trust but verify" before I put full faith in them - in that regard.

Note their OEM licensing policies are by no means unique to Microsoft. OEM anti-malware products that come bundled with many factory made computers, for example, are often not transferable to different computers. Software that comes bundled with a DVD writer is licensed to that DVD player. OEM Windows from the major PC makers are often branded - by the PC maker, not Microsoft.

As for OEM coolers (1) in regards to warranties, that is not my opinion. That is just a fact. Read it yourself in your own documentation that came with your CPUs, or on-line via the links I provided. And (2), as for them being capable, I am afraid that is just a fact too. I've proven it over and over again on my own work bench in my shop. You can moderately overclock a CPU with a properly cooled case all day long using an OEM stock fan and proper layer of TIM. Sure, you can get cooler temps with an aftermarket cooler. And as my sig says, "heat is the bane of all electronics". But, that does not mean you must have the absolute coolest CPU temperature possible for safe, long lasting CPU operation. As long as you keep your temps in a safe "operating range", then you are fine. And for me, and this is my opinion, I only start to get nervous when CPU temps hit 60įC - which many still consider just very warm, and not hot.

No doubt, extreme overclocking requires extreme cooling measures. No argument there.

Quote:
keep in mind we are "on" the internet.
So what? And, that's exactly the point. "So what" because, so what? Being on the Internet does not give anybody a license to insult, steal software, or behave in any manner inconsistent with being a good citizen. And "exactly the point" because it is through the Internet that badguys attempt to steal our identities, launch spam or DDoS attacks, or worse, attempt to harm our children and grandchildren.

Quote:
I didn't mean a personal insult
I thank you for that. While I am a Microsoft MVP, they do not pull my strings. I am all for bashing, when bashing is due. But I will defend anybody or any organization if they are wrongly bashed - even if I have issues with them on other fronts. Microsoft, like most, if not all big conglomerates, is just too big to bash the entire company for actions of one of their departments. Marketing weenies are a different breed of people from software developers and hardware engineers/technicians. And the bean counters are different yet.
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Old 10-23-2011, 12:15 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: Thoughts on this Build?

I don't recall ever mentioning whether I would or would not be overclocking... So I read all my posts again and I'm still not seeing it. I guess my keyboard is typing things I haven't. I should have known overclocking my keyboard to 5 Hz was a bad idea.
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Old 10-23-2011, 12:16 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Thoughts on this Build?

To end the debate right now about the whole licensing thing. We have topics on it located across the forum about the various licensing aspects. Here is just 1 such topic. The simple fact of the matter is this. Microsoft is in control of their software just like anyone who develops. They are in control of how it is licensed and as such they have to clarify all the terms and conditions within the End User License Agreement or EULA. It could also be called the Terms of Service or TOS. Much like an owners manual, it is up to the end user to read the terms fully before clicking Okay to agreeing to the terms.

So despite what personal experiences we have had dealing with Microsoft for various reason with such things, they are spelled out clearly. There is ways to access it on your specific machine as well as PDF files available for download to read anytime you want directly from Microsoft. When it comes to such matters, people have to leave their personal feelings aside and let the facts speak for themselves. While it may not be what a person wants to hear or whatever the case maybe, the simple fact is Microsoft in the end is the one responsible. We here are just the messenger and it is our right and our duty on this site to make sure that we inform members of the agreement they made to use the software. Any other questions, comments or complaints need to be directed to the source. We are not Microsoft. But at the same time we can be sued by them for giving information out that could allow a person to pirate their software.

I have gone and updated the OEM vs Retail thread to include the link to the Microsoft Site which offers a download of the EULA of almost all of their products in just about every language possible. Everyone is entitles to their opinion, but we must remember that we have rules on this site as well that must be followed along with the EULA of the products in use. This includes but is not limited to use, distribution along with transferring.

Please leave the licensing aspect aside now and assist the member on his query about the build.
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Old 10-23-2011, 12:51 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Thoughts on this Build?

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Originally Posted by Overclocked_Keyboard View Post
I don't recall ever mentioning whether I would or would not be overclocking... So I read all my posts again and I'm still not seeing it. I guess my keyboard is typing things I haven't. I should have known overclocking my keyboard to 5 Hz was a bad idea.
Errr, you are quite right. My apologies.
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Old 10-23-2011, 12:57 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: Thoughts on this Build?

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Originally Posted by Overclocked_Keyboard View Post
I don't recall ever mentioning whether I would or would not be overclocking... So I read all my posts again and I'm still not seeing it. I guess my keyboard is typing things I haven't. I should have known overclocking my keyboard to 5 Hz was a bad idea.
Sorry, must have been from the previous thread I was reading, although I could have sworn I saw you post something about overclocking.. But I digress. Back to your build, it all looks good, but do yourself a favor, and don't buy "Superclocked" GPU's. Overclocking a GPU is extremely easy, and while it might not be true in this case, they're usualyy about $20-$40 more than the stock version.
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Old 10-23-2011, 01:08 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tj_extreme View Post
Sorry, must have been from the previous thread I was reading, although I could have sworn I saw you post something about overclocking.. But I digress. Back to your build, it all looks good, but do yourself a favor, and don't buy "Superclocked" GPU's. Overclocking a GPU is extremely easy, and while it might not be true in this case, they're usualyy about $20-$40 more than the stock version.
Yes overclocking a GPU is so easy I even did it in my laptop. (460M overclocked to 800Mhz). Since in this case the superclocked costs the same as the stock version, would it be better to overclock the stock or just overclock the superclocked version?
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