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Old 09-04-2008, 12:38 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

Quote:
Originally Posted by zmatt View Post
The OP wanted build a new machine but he was convinced into buying a phenom build due to misinformation.
What misinformation would that be then?
Quote:
When the facts are important what one thinks is hardly relevant. Most of your arguments revolve around subjective things.
Only one part was, and that was the part that I don't like Intel.
Quote:
YOU think that it was poorly implemented
Not poorly. Just not particularly great at first.
Quote:
YOU think 45nm will save the world.
If that's not an exaggeration, I don't know what is.
I just said I don't think Phenom was designed for 65nm.
Quote:
YOU aren't an engineer
Neither are you. Which doesn't mean we can't know technical aspects about things.
Quote:
and YOU dont have much data to back it up.
And you want to talk about subjective?
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Just hearsay and conjecture over something nobody has been able to get their hands on.
Or, just reasonable expectation based on facts, such as the fact that even Intel did not believe in the viability of a 65nm monolithic quad, or the fact that if you read about Deneb and AMD's 45nm process, you'll find more than just a die shrink has happened

Quote:
Although this did contribute a great deal to its bad rep that in and of itself didn't kill Phenom.
It's not dead.
Quote:
You say they OC well but the only 4ghz run that anyone can substantiate took Liquid Nitrogen.
Actually, There was a DICE run. And that ES Deneb with stock cooling.
But why only limit the field of overclocking specifically to 4GHZ
99% of Phenom's will run past 3GHZ with SB750 and a great majority significantly more

And you say that as if C2Q's will always get 4GHZ, or something.
Most of them don't.
Quote:
The TLB bug is gone but that didn't alleviate the lack luster performance overall.
That's begging the question.
Quote:
The truth is the Phenom just isn't that fast.
That's a bit like saying that, if Ferarri wins most F1 races, that the Mclaren's/Renault's/Toyota's/BMW's are not that fast.
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Old 09-04-2008, 01:08 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildside View Post
Huh???1 O_o

bottlenecking lower then 1920x1200? Please..............that is a matter of ur own opinion. Anything higher then 1680x1050 the HD 4870 x2 can handle easily i just dont see how a bottleneck could exist at 1680x1050 or something for the HD 4870 x2. 1680x1050 is still high. My card handles it pretty good. Unless u can prove me wrong.

EDIT:

gosh man, im waiting for MSI to send me back my cables. All i need is 2 SATA cables n then my computer is revived again!
No, Its not my opinion. Its fact, your obviously have not read ALL the X2 previews and reviews. For if you did you would see that other cards beat it out more often on the lower resolutions and the X2 wins far more often on higher resolutions.

You don't need to take my word for it, go read all the reviews and previews and ull see. There, there is your proof.
If you don't have time to read all reviews for a products that you speak of, well, what of your proof then?

Your card does fine because its not a 4870 X2, its older tech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gurusan View Post
at 1680x1050 a 4870x2 is barely even able to stretch its legs....
Correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zedman3d View Post
Well he wanted a PC for $1500... what are we gonna do, give him a 9800GT and send him on his way because thats all he needs??
Maybe not the 9800 GT, but certainly not the X2, unless he had at least a 24' monitor.

an 4870 or a 260 GTX would be fine.
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Old 09-04-2008, 03:45 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokalipse View Post
Actually, There was a DICE run. And that ES Deneb with stock cooling.
Until you provide some sort of evidence that Phenoms can hit 4ghz with DICE I'm sticking with my original statement that it takes ln2 to reach that speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokalipse View Post
99% of Phenom's will run past 3GHZ with SB750 and a great majority significantly more
I wold like to see some stats on how well the average Phenom overclocks from a reputable source.
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Old 09-04-2008, 03:50 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

Pretty sure he showed you, yea, he did.
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Old 09-04-2008, 03:56 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

^^ He never showed any evidence of a 65nm Phenom hitting 4ghz on DICE or a source to back up his claim that 99% of phenoms will oc past 3ghz
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Old 09-04-2008, 03:57 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

He gave you a link to all articals and news of it 45nm hitting least 4 Ghz.

And google isn't that hard to use even if you did not see it.

4ghz deneb - Google Search

3 ghz phenoms - Google Search
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Old 09-04-2008, 04:00 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

The only links he posted in this thread that I have seen were one to Google for the 4ghz deneb (45nm Phenom) and another to xtremesystems that doesn't work. Neither of those prove his statement that a 65nm phenom will do 4ghz on DICE.
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Old 09-04-2008, 04:05 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddle Jumper View Post
Until you provide some sort of evidence that Phenoms can hit 4ghz with DICE I'm sticking with my original statement that it takes ln2 to reach that speed.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=165143
I believe I've already posted it before
Quote:
I wold like to see some stats on how well the average Phenom overclocks from a reputable source.
XtremeSystems.org/forums
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddle Jumper
^^ He never showed any evidence of a 65nm Phenom hitting 4ghz on DICE
I believe I have before.
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or a source to back up his claim that 99% of phenoms will oc past 3ghz
Not on any board. but with descent SB750's
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Old 09-04-2008, 04:13 PM   #79 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokalipse View Post
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=165143
I believe I've already posted it before
XtremeSystems.org/forums
The connection keeps timing out but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 09-04-2008, 04:14 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Default Re: Possible stupid Q... X4 vs X2..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wildside View Post
bottlenecking lower then 1920x1200? Please..............that is a matter of ur own opinion. Anything higher then 1680x1050 the HD 4870 x2 can handle easily i just dont see how a bottleneck could exist at 1680x1050 or something for the HD 4870 x2.
i think you misunderstand ste, wildside...
it is a fact that a low resolution monitor bottlenecks a high-end graphics card. thats what ste is saying. as a matter of fact, most bottlenecks in most (if not all) decent gaming rigs are the monitors, especially if they are smaller than a 24".
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