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Old 09-23-2009, 11:42 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Default Re: Graphics Performance List

I think if you turn AA and AF up high, the 5870 tends to win more.
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Old 09-26-2009, 06:58 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Default Re: Graphics Performance List

The 295 is also a dual gpu card, costs $100 more and doesn't win by that large of a margin. Heck the 5870 cleanly beats it in Far cry 2, Wow, Dawn of War, and L4D.

There is no doubt in my mind which card is superior.
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Old 09-26-2009, 07:39 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Default Re: Graphics Performance List

perhaps with newer drivers the 5870 would beat the GTX 295 but it still does not beat it. they came close but it seems like ATI is always one generation behind, with the exception of the 5870.

for eg, the 2900 series and the 8800's when they first launched. the 8800gtx decimated the 2900xt while the 8800GTS 640mb was beaten by it. and then with the intro of G92 how that still killed the 38xx series. things did change a good bit when they released the 48xx series.
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Old 09-26-2009, 07:43 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Default Re: Graphics Performance List

Quote:
Originally Posted by philbar71 View Post
perhaps with newer drivers the 5870 would beat the GTX 295 but it still does not beat it. they came close but it seems like ATI is always one generation behind.
One generation behind? The GTX295 barely beats it. And it is much more expensive and runs hotter. The 5870 is better in almost every way. I don't know how you can say that.

Driver updates don't makes cards better, they make them less worse. All they do is better utilize the hardware better. You can't improve upon the hardware you have.

If you think the 5870 is one generation behind then you either didn't read the articles or you have a serious conflict of interests.
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Old 09-26-2009, 07:45 PM   #65 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Graphics Performance List

He's saying it is one generation behind because it is close to the last generation of Nvidia cards.
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Old 09-26-2009, 07:47 PM   #66 (permalink)
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One generation behind? The GTX295 barely beats it. And it is much more expensive and runs hotter. The 5870 is better in almost every way. I don't know how you can say that.

Driver updates don't makes cards better, they make them less worse. All they do is better utilize the hardware better. You can't improve upon the hardware you have.

If you think the 5870 is one generation behind then you either didn't read the articles or you have a serious conflict of interests.
Exactly.. the performance is "don't make cards better, they make them less worse" is the best way to put it.

Plus Philbar said always one generation behind, which is completely untrue... Do I need to bring up x1900's and the HD 4800's.

I need to get some money and pick up one of these cards... once again I'm two generations behind on cards.
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Old 09-26-2009, 07:51 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Default Re: Graphics Performance List

^ i did not mean the 5870 is one generation behind. i was saying in general (excluding the 5870)

and driver improvements do not make the hardware better, like you said drivers dont make the hardware better they take better advantage of the hardware so there should be improvements with future drivers.
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Old 09-26-2009, 07:55 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Default Re: Graphics Performance List

Quote:
Originally Posted by philbar71 View Post
^ i did not mean the 5870 is one generation behind. i was saying in general (excluding the 5870)
What do you mean in general? That's the only card they have reviewed so what else could you mean?

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and driver improvements do not make the hardware better, like you said drivers dont make the hardware better they take better advantage of the hardware so there should be improvements with future drivers.
So how can you say a card that is at the end of it's life cycle with fully developed drivers is better than a new card that for all intents and purposes has beta drivers? The 5870 comes close in several things and beats it in others. That tells me that it is much more powerful than at first sight and it will easily overtake the gtx295.
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Old 09-26-2009, 08:04 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Default Re: Graphics Performance List

Quote:
Originally Posted by zmatt View Post
What do you mean in general? That's the only card they have reviewed so what else could you mean?
What I was referring to was the 2900 series and the 8800's when they first launched. the 8800gtx decimated the 2900xt while the 8800GTS 640mb was beaten by it. and then with the intro of G92 how that still killed the 38xx series. things did change a bit when they released the 48xx series.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zmatt View Post
So how can you say a card that is at the end of it's life cycle with fully developed drivers is better than a new card that for all intents and purposes has beta drivers? The 5870 comes close in several things and beats it in others. That tells me that it is much more powerful than at first sight and it will easily overtake the gtx295.
i'm not saying that driver improvements are going to nearly double the performance i was saying we would see a small gain, like 5-10% with better drivers. which is all the 5870 really needs to fully take the GTX 295.
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Old 09-26-2009, 08:13 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philbar71 View Post
What I was referring to was the 2900 series and the 8800's when they first launched. the 8800gtx decimated the 2900xt while the 8800GTS 640mb was beaten by it. and then with the intro of G92 how that still killed the 38xx series. things did change a bit when they released the 48xx series.
What? You didn't bring any of that up in the post I was addressing.

you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by philbar71 View Post
perhaps with newer drivers the 5870 would beat the GTX 295 but it still does not beat it. they came close but it seems like ATI is always one generation behind.
Given what the topic was a rational person could only reach the conclusion that you were saying that the GTX295 was better and that the Radeon hd5870 is a generation behind Nvidia.


Quote:
Originally Posted by philbar71 View Post
i'm not saying that driver improvements are going to nearly double the performance i was saying we would see a small gain, like 5-10% with better drivers. which is all the 5870 really needs to fully take the GTX 295.
I know, you were saying that the GTX295 was faster and that you were disappointed in ATI releasing a mediocre card.
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