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Old 03-30-2010, 04:55 AM   #251 (permalink)
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Default Re: Graphics Performance List

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Originally Posted by aliasaid View Post
lol apokalipse, you and your statistics.

Your argument makes a lot more sense now! However, the numbers that you're using it seems you just made up or guestimated, so: +1 logic, -1 accuracy.
Good power supplies do typically vary from 85 to 80% efficiency depending on load, with 85% efficiency at 50% load.

Even if my estimations aren't particularly accurate, they're reasonable approximations.
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:40 AM   #252 (permalink)
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Default Re: Graphics Performance List

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Originally Posted by Apokalipse View Post
When you try using a "400W" cheapo PSU and actually try to draw 400W from it, let me know.
Also, good luck getting >85% efficiency or a stable voltage level out of one (this can affect overclocking stability, particularly if you're pushing things to their limits)

With power supplies, if you get a good one, you can probably keep it for 10 years of using it with many different parts.
Yes, or a 5870. Cypress has way better performance per watt.
Maybe so.

But i can get a cheep 800w PSU for less money than a good 500w PSU. So really, i may as well get a cheep 800w PSU, it probably only handles 500w. But oh well, it's cheaper.

It's just that of all my friends PC's that I've built and bought the parts for, A cheep PSU has never been a problem. An expensive PSU may well last 10 years, but when most gaming PC's need to be upgraded at least every 3 years, there is of little benefit getting an expensive good PSU.

In fact, i haven't ever came across a single piece of electronics equipment where the PSU has failed. So i struggle with spending a lot of money on something that gives no benefit to me.

(I would like to add, that any non-members reading this whilst browsing the internet, i am the ONLY (or atleast one of very few people) person on this forum who expresses this opinion )

I won't try and argue overclocking though, as that does sound reasonable. I only ever try sensible OC's, (Currently at 3.7ghz ATM on my Q9550)

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Originally Posted by Apokalipse View Post
That HEC PSU says it has an efficiency of >75%
That's actually pretty poor.
And I doubt it will provide power particularly stably at varying loads, which would be particularly bad for overclocking.

It says it's rated for 485W.
If you were running 300W from it, it might be fine (which probably most people do). but if you actually try pulling 485W out of it, I doubt it would last long.
Whereas, a good PSU that's rated for 485W should not only be able to supply 485W constantly, but also up to 100W more. And at the same time, keep voltages within ~1% tolerance at varying loads (compared to ~5-7% of a cheapo PSU)

Even if you argue that 'most people won't load it much so it'll be fine'
It's still bad practice to put something low quality or badly manufactured in.
*Maybe 98% of people who use one will be fine.*
But then that means 2 in every 100 people won't be.

Whereas a good PSU might be fine 99.96% of the time. Which would mean 4 in every 1000 people have one die. That's still a difference of about 50 times the failure rate of the cheaper PSU.
Or a great PSU might be fine 99.995% of the time. Nearly 100 times the difference of a 'good' PSU, and 500 times the difference of a cheapo PSU.

So on that premise, i can upgrade my PC 50 times before one fails.
My cheep PSU that i always buy is 20, the good quality equivalents are at least 60. That is a saving of 40.

40x50 = 2000.

So even when my poor PC dies from a failed PSU, i can afford to replace it all again anyway - probably twice.

edit:

When my GTX470 arrives (I really want PhysX) i'll try it on this same 650w PSU, i was going to buy another 20 800w PSU. But with the massive increase in wattage required compared to my 4870, it should start to struggle. But i'm going to try it just for interests sake.
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Old 03-30-2010, 11:28 AM   #253 (permalink)
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Default Re: Graphics Performance List

Nah, that makes sense. Personally I'm more cautious though since the budget PSU in my mum's computer dies about once a year or so :P
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Old 03-30-2010, 05:02 PM   #254 (permalink)
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Maybe so.

But i can get a cheep 800w PSU for less money than a good 500w PSU. So really, i may as well get a cheep 800w PSU, it probably only handles 500w. But oh well, it's cheaper.
And you end up losing the money saved with the poor efficiency (power bill), and at the same time reducing stability of overclocking.
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Old 03-30-2010, 05:06 PM   #255 (permalink)
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Default Re: Graphics Performance List

And it is likely to die. I know a guy who went through 3 psu's in one year, and the last time took out his motherboard.
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:36 PM   #256 (permalink)
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Default Re: Graphics Performance List

If you're trying to save money on large volumes of PC's (businesses, schools) by getting cheaper PSU's, it increases the probability that you'll have some of them die.

If you just have one PC, with a 95% reliability you have a better chance of it not dying.
If you get 100 PC's, 5 of them will probably die.
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Old 04-01-2010, 04:38 PM   #257 (permalink)
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Default Re: Graphics Performance List

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Originally Posted by Apokalipse View Post
And you end up losing the money saved with the poor efficiency (power bill), and at the same time reducing stability of overclocking.
Well yeh but..

I dont pay the power bill (yet)

Im managing to hold a fairly decent OC with my crap PSU and really crap 667mhz ram. Infact, it is probably the ram that won't let me go higher, not the PSU.

On another point,

I am not quite sure why people are so bothered about GPU temps on the GTX470/80. Its 94c under load..so what ? My oldschool 4870 gets that high (albeit at 35pcent fan), but it isn't a problem at all. Realisticly unless you really want to OC a fermi, you'll look at the temps once be like "holy crap!" and then play a game and never look at them again. I can understand people moaning about the power usage, but temps.. i just cannot see the problem, so long as it works.
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Old 04-01-2010, 04:57 PM   #258 (permalink)
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Default Re: Graphics Performance List

I would also like to point out that many of the "cheapy" PSU's are rated at say 400W peak power, whereas many of the higher quality PSU's can handle their rated wattage at continuous load.

And as Apokalispe already pointed out, cheap PSU's are much more likely to last longer when not being pushed hard (just as any other component), so while a cheap PSU rated for 500W pushing out 250W may last 5 years, and high quality PSU would last twice as long.

So, while you can get by with a cheapo PSU, it just isn't smart to buy one. Especially in a system with other top notch equipment.
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Old 04-01-2010, 05:21 PM   #259 (permalink)
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Default Re: Graphics Performance List

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Originally Posted by Oreo View Post
It's just that of all my friends PC's that I've built and bought the parts for, A cheep PSU has never been a problem. An expensive PSU may well last 10 years, but when most gaming PC's need to be upgraded at least every 3 years, there is of little benefit getting an expensive good PSU.
Regular upgrades are exactly why a quality psu is a worthwhile investment. I could go out right now and upgrade to a core i7 and HD 5870 without having to worry if my 2 year old 550vx is up to the task of running those parts for the next few years. If I tried that with a 2 year old 550w pos power supply I'd be playing Russian Roulette with over $500 worth of hardware.

Have you ever bothered to test the voltages of one of those cheap psu's with the system running at 100% load on both the cpu and gpu?
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Old 04-01-2010, 09:52 PM   #260 (permalink)
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Default Re: Graphics Performance List

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Regular upgrades are exactly why a quality psu is a worthwhile investment. I could go out right now and upgrade to a core i7 and HD 5870 without having to worry if my 2 year old 550vx is up to the task of running those parts for the next few years. If I tried that with a 2 year old 550w pos power supply I'd be playing Russian Roulette with over $500 worth of hardware.

Have you ever bothered to test the voltages of one of those cheap psu's with the system running at 100% load on both the cpu and gpu?
Nope.

But i have a multimeter on the shelf, how do i do so without killing myself ? (I'm accident prone)
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