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Old 07-17-2006, 07:05 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by gaara
A GPU is an independant component, we've gone over this before, it's not a bottleneck, it just happens to be the component that gets put under more load.
Yes, we have gone over this before, and you have been wrong. Not an independant component. "Just happens to be put under more load" is because it can't handle the instructions that the CPU is sending it. The GPU is indeed a much more complex and powerful processor, but it has the much more complicated task of executing the instructions, while the CPU is under much less load with simply sending them.

The Bus can be incredibly wide, but it wouldn't matter if the videocard itself is not physically strong enough to execute.
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Old 07-17-2006, 07:24 PM   #112 (permalink)
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The Bus can be incredibly wide, but it wouldn't matter if the videocard itself is not physically strong enough to execute.
But that isn't a bottleneck, I don't know how else to possibly explain it to you. You understand the GPU and CPU each execute their own operations, you understand that they are both independant, you understand that they do not ever directly communicate with one another, and you understand that current I/O bandwidth does not cause the only possible bottleneck. I don't see how any of that adds up to a bottleneck. If the GPU can't execute its own operations fast enough then that's its problem, it has nothing to do with raw CPU power nor availible system bandwidth. Every single piece of hardware has a limit in regards to how much it performs, however so long as that limit does not restrict the capabilities of other components it's not a bottleneck, it is a ISOLATED PIECE OF SLOW HARDWARE.

Again, if you can illustrate that there is something other than the GPU itself that's limiting the GPUs capabilities I'll acknowledge the fact that there is a bottleneck, otherwise I'm just gonna ignore everything because you're only telling me what I already know and then trying to attribute a non-existant bottleneck to something

A bottleneck is not the same thing as a limit
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Old 07-17-2006, 07:53 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Then let me restate it.

The Bus can be incredibly wide, but it wouldn't matter if the videocard itself is not physically strong enough to execute the overflow of instructions that it gets from the CPU. Because of it's incapability to process all those instructions, it is restricting the power of the CPU, and keeping it from reaching it's full potential. A bottleneck.

IF, I repeat IF, the GPU was a sole component and it was weak, not powerful enough to execute it's own instructions, then it WOULD NOT be a bottleneck. I agree with that part. But that's not the situation. The GPU can only dream of being independant from the CPU, and of creating it's own instructions.

I have a feeling we're going to be going around in circles for a while.
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Old 07-17-2006, 08:19 PM   #114 (permalink)
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If you dont mind me asking, what is it with you and your mission to be 100% correct no questions asked?

I dont see why you cant just accept the fact that even if you are right/wrong, all your doing is giving your self attention and showing us how immature you are?

If thats what you want, bravo A+ effort, but I mean c'mon just let it go. So what if your wrong. So what if your right

Is it worth that much to be hated by a community that you countlessly want to be apart of?
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Old 07-17-2006, 08:24 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Its more of a "I have to convince other people" than a "I have to be right all the time."

If I convince Gaara, then he, and anyone else reading this thread, spreads that. Then, anyone that comes to this forum gets the correct information (or what I believe is the correct information, ofcourse). Thus, everyone that comes to this forum is happy.

Same explanation for why I keep coming back. Due to the name of this forum, it attracts a lot of PC builders. If there are AMD fanboys trolling around, they give fanboy Bullsh*t to the people that come to this forum. Consequently, those people do not get the best that they can. Therefore, they lose their hard-earned money. I try to prevent that.

I have no special love for most of you people either. If this forum always consisted of just you people, I wouldn't be here. Alas, that is not the case, and there are many newcomers.

Its kind of hard to describe. But asking me to stay away from the forum is like saying, "Stay away, and don't use your knowledge to help the people that you can very easily help, and let us screw with these people." Just yesterday, I showed the Conroe performance graph to that one new member thinking of building. He was shocked and immidiately switched to a Conroe build. I rest my case.
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Old 07-17-2006, 08:32 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Because of it's incapability to process all those instructions, it is restricting the power of the CPU, and keeping it from reaching it's full potential. A bottleneck.
So you're telling me without any doubt whatsoever that in order to absolutely max out say Oblivion, you need absolutely all of the processing power of say an X6800, and that anything less is considered inadaquete?
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Old 07-17-2006, 08:39 PM   #117 (permalink)
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To max out Oblivion you need a Dual 7900GTX SLI system. Any processor upgrades will improve your performance once that bottleneck is removed. After that, its up to you to decide how many FPS are enough for you.
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Old 07-17-2006, 09:20 PM   #118 (permalink)
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(removing the limit of the GPU from the equation)

All I'm understand from this is that you seem to think that a CPU has to be taxed constantly under 100% load in a game otherwise it's being "bottlenecked". You don't seem to understand that games are not dependant on the CPU and that processing power of CPUs have far surpassed the need of any current generation engine. Games are without a doubt the least CPU intensive operations out there
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Old 07-17-2006, 09:31 PM   #119 (permalink)
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The benchmarks seem to disagree with you.

A faster CPU gets you higher performance because of the additional number of instructions being pushed though. Assuming the GPU is a MegaMonster, that would lead to increased performance.

-----------

Aside from that, I think its worthy to note that games are becoming more CPU dependant, and I don't mean any of the bottlenecking rubbish.

Elder Scrolls 4: Oblivion introduced an enormous amount of AI into the game. GPU limitation or not, a faster CPU gets you higher FPS because of the AI calculations. That may be the future.
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Old 07-17-2006, 10:35 PM   #120 (permalink)
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Gaara thats the first thing you've said correct all day, but only when the GPU is working at maximum capacity, and could not accomodate any more information. This is true of low end gpus running high end games.

In lower games though, with high gpus, an increase of CPU power is a worthy gain. It's all in proportion. You can't say cpus don't this or gpu do this...

Its a matter of 4 parts

CPU speed
GPU speed
GPU load
CPU load

all variable in huge amounts, making every possibility unique. It's the uncertainity principle....

There's dozens of scenarios where one is faster than the other at its job etc.

It's like a traffic jam. two tunnels (cpu + gpu) end to end of variable lane # (gpu and cpu speed/capacity) mixed with two types of cars (cpu and gpu load) of variable quanties!
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