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Old 11-11-2007, 02:07 AM   #111 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD Phenom X4 CPU Prices Emerge

lol dude your argument that you are making has nothing to do with the original answer to the question that we had here. but...okay...
memory controllers versus sockets...uh, yep.
yeah i realize that s939 is so yesterday. whats funny is that its performance is well, pretty close to todays sockets. so thats a moot point. we're not talking about upgrade paths here.
and COUGH. i'll believe intels IMC when i see it with me own two eyes.
yeah my mom had a P4 system. unfortunately, it used ddr ram. so guess what...? a whole new system. another moot point there chief. cos she had to buy new ram, mobo and cpu. unless a bios flash can make a motherboard use a different type of ram, havent seen that one yet.
and wtf does AMD's IMC have to do with upgrading a P4...? tie it together for me...
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Old 11-11-2007, 10:28 AM   #112 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD Phenom X4 CPU Prices Emerge

Quote:
Originally Posted by nagasama View Post
lol dude your argument that you are making has nothing to do with the original answer to the question that we had here. but...okay...
memory controllers versus sockets...uh, yep.
yeah i realize that s939 is so yesterday. whats funny is that its performance is well, pretty close to todays sockets. so thats a moot point. we're not talking about upgrade paths here.
and COUGH. i'll believe intels IMC when i see it with me own two eyes.
yeah my mom had a P4 system. unfortunately, it used ddr ram. so guess what...? a whole new system. another moot point there chief. cos she had to buy new ram, mobo and cpu. unless a bios flash can make a motherboard use a different type of ram, havent seen that one yet.
and wtf does AMD's IMC have to do with upgrading a P4...? tie it together for me...
Let me restate my point again.
Intel may not have had an IMC on their processors, but what the **** does it matter if AMD can't match the performance of Intel's processors anyway. If the performance is fine without it, what does it matter, because then the IMC ends up screwing you over.

You'll believe Intel's IMC when you see it? TG Daily - Intel develops integrated memory controller for Nehalem processors
If you don't believe that, then shoot, don't.

You don't need a whole new system. The processor used in Intel systems don't determine what RAM you can use. The memory controller on the motherboard does. So you see, that Pentium 4 system your mother has can easilly be upgraded to a Core 2 if your motherboard supports it.

AMD's IMC has to do with upgrading a Pentium 4 because..
It's the fact that AMD will have gone through four sockets, where Intel has used one. The IMC screws over people for upgrading( For example, the best upgrade option I have for 939 at the moment is a x2 3800+ for like 90 dollars.)

Whereas when we look at Intel, the fact that Intel has been able to stick with 775.. For 90 dollars, I could get an e2180.. Even if i had a motherboard that only used DDR RAM.
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Old 11-11-2007, 11:35 AM   #113 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD Phenom X4 CPU Prices Emerge

if intels performance is fine without it, why are they going to be changing?
anyways...thats a pretty good article you linked, thanks.
hmm, i didnt know you could use ddr ram with a core 2.
EDIT: and it seems that mobos that are able to support ddr are few and far between.
but in any event...P4's use ONE SOCKET???? my moms rig's cpu was a northwood or something...socket 478?
you're basing your point on the assumption that all p4's are socket 775. they arent. and as you stated, all 775 mobos don't support C2d. so, there is definitely a chance that someone who has a 775 mobo will NOT be able to run a C2d. its true that intel has used 775 for some time now, but understand that most people dont upgrade their equipment like we do.
p4 has currently used more sockets than AMD's x2: 423, 478, and 775....amd has had s939 and now am2 and soon am2+, which as i am sure you are aware is compatible with am2. so once again, your point here...?
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Old 11-11-2007, 12:00 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD Phenom X4 CPU Prices Emerge

Sure an integrated memory controller is better, but Core 2 setups are still effectively significantly faster than AMD x2 setups with their uber leet integrated memory controllers.....

Anyway once Nehalem comes out both amd and intel chips will have IMCs so this argument will be moot
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Old 11-11-2007, 02:55 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD Phenom X4 CPU Prices Emerge

Quote:
Originally Posted by nagasama View Post
if intels performance is fine without it, why are they going to be changing?
anyways...thats a pretty good article you linked, thanks.
hmm, i didnt know you could use ddr ram with a core 2.
EDIT: and it seems that mobos that are able to support ddr are few and far between.
but in any event...P4's use ONE SOCKET???? my moms rig's cpu was a northwood or something...socket 478?
you're basing your point on the assumption that all p4's are socket 775. they arent. and as you stated, all 775 mobos don't support C2d. so, there is definitely a chance that someone who has a 775 mobo will NOT be able to run a C2d. its true that intel has used 775 for some time now, but understand that most people dont upgrade their equipment like we do.
p4 has currently used more sockets than AMD's x2: 423, 478, and 775....amd has had s939 and now am2 and soon am2+, which as i am sure you are aware is compatible with am2. so once again, your point here...?
What I meant to say was in the timespan of AMD, where they have released 754, 939, AM2, AM2+, Intel has been able to stick with one socket (775)
Intel is changing because, yes, I am assuming IMCs are better for performance, however, the overall performance comparison between Core 2's and K8's still have Intel in the lead, so what does it matter if AMD's IMCs perform better.

Yes, mobos that support DDR are very few in numbers now. They were a bit more widespread when DDR was the standard.

I know all motherboards do not support Core 2's, but A LOT of them do.

And yeah, I am aware of AM2/AM2+ compatibllity, not sure how it works exactly. (whether AM2+ processors will work in AM2 motherboards, or AM2 processors will work in AM2+ motherboards, or both) However, I know that AM2+ processors would not reap the benefits of HTT 3.0 on an AM2 board.

And 939 users like me are STILL screwed
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Old 11-11-2007, 06:32 PM   #116 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD Phenom X4 CPU Prices Emerge

yeah i allllllmost bought a 939 rig...held out for am2 though.
i am curious to see how the memory controller will work with the intel chips. if the advancement of their cpu line stays on track, they should be smokin fast when they use the IMC. i just wonder at the actual design of it.
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:15 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD Phenom X4 CPU Prices Emerge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathawk View Post
What I meant to say was in the timespan of AMD, where they have released 754, 939, AM2, AM2+, Intel has been able to stick with one socket (775)
which doesn't mean that all 775 processors are compatible with all 775 boards.

When new processors come out, you still sometimes need a new chipset.
When they moved from DDR1 to DDR2, a new chipset was needed, too.

Also, new chipsets for PCI-E over from AGP

Quote:
I know all motherboards do not support Core 2's, but A LOT of them do.
But that wasn't the case before Core 2's came out. If you have a mohterboard from then, you will still need a new board to upgrade.

Quote:
And yeah, I am aware of AM2/AM2+ compatibllity, not sure how it works exactly. (whether AM2+ processors will work in AM2 motherboards, or AM2 processors will work in AM2+ motherboards, or both)
Both.
It'll just drop the HTT bus to 1GHZ (effective 2GHZ) if either an AM2 CPU or AM2 board are used.
With an AM2+ CPU and board, it'll use HTT 3.0

Also, AM3 CPU's will work in AM2/AM2+

Quote:
However, I know that AM2+ processors would not reap the benefits of HTT 3.0 on an AM2 board.
But still, it means you don't have to get a new board if you have AM2

Quote:
And 939 users like me are STILL screwed
yeah. But then again, so are socket 775 users who have a pre core 2 board.
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:54 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD Phenom X4 CPU Prices Emerge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokalipse View Post
When new processors come out, you still sometimes need a new chipset. When they moved from DDR1 to DDR2, a new chipset was needed, too.
Sometimes beats what you can say about AMD. Also, you would be able to stick with DDR1.. However, not many DDR1 motherboards support Core 2's, so..
Quote:
Also, new chipsets for PCI-E over from AGP
What does this exactly prove? You still don't have to move to a new socket, and upgrade your CPU/RAM to upgrade from AGP to PCIe...
Quote:
But that wasn't the case before Core 2's came out. If you have a mohterboard from then, you will still need a new board to upgrade.
Supporting chipsets :
Quote:
Intel: 865PE/G/GV/G, 945P/PL/G/GZ/GC, 965P/G, 975X, P/G/Q965, Q963, 946GZ/PL; X3x, P3x, G3x, Q3x
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SiS: 662, 671, 671fx, 672, 672fx
ATI: Radeon Xpress 200 and CrossFire Xpress 3200 for Intel
A bunch of those chipsets were released before Core 2 release..
Quote:
yeah. But then again, so are socket 775 users who have a pre core 2 board.
Not a lot of them =)
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Old 11-11-2007, 11:41 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD Phenom X4 CPU Prices Emerge

I don't have a problem migrating to a new socket and Ram. Well, other than the money to do so.

Advances in technology call for more than just a new chip. new chips have new features, and these features usually require more/different connections that the previous generation. AMD went to AM2 because of DDR2 RAM. With Intel pushing the change, they had to adapt.

AM2+ and AM3 are extensions of this. AM2+ incorporates new features, but will work in existing motherboards with existing RAM (AM2/DDR2). AM3 will work the same way, but it may only go back to AM2+. Still, it's better than nothing.

I may be running a s939, but it isn't slow by any means. One day I will build a new rig, but it won't be anytime soon.
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:15 AM   #120 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD Phenom X4 CPU Prices Emerge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathawk View Post
Sometimes beats what you can say about AMD. Also, you would be able to stick with DDR1.. However, not many DDR1 motherboards support Core 2's, so..

What does this exactly prove? You still don't have to move to a new socket, and upgrade your CPU/RAM to upgrade from AGP to PCIe...
But new chipsets can't just be placed into old motherboards. New chipsets mean new motherboards, whether it's using the same socket or not.

Quote:
Supporting chipsets :

A bunch of those chipsets were released before Core 2 release..
And there are chipsets that don't support Core 2's.

Also, the move to 1333FSB. Again, new motherbords needed.

Quote:
Not a lot of them =)
but a significant amount.

Besidea, the vast majority of people who bought Core 2's, also bought new motherboards anyway.

And a lot of people moved from other sockets, including socket 478 or 423.
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