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Old 09-06-2008, 03:22 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD or Intel?

topic closed!!! someone make me a moderator!
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Old 09-06-2008, 03:29 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD or Intel?

LOL! I would support that Nos. I think you would make a good mod.
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Old 09-06-2008, 03:33 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD or Intel?

awww thanks, i've applied many times

all my infractions just expired too.. lol

but anywho.. on topic!!!

i don't think anything named amd vs. intel should be allowed anymore... because this always happens
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Old 09-06-2008, 03:34 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD or Intel?

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Originally Posted by zmatt View Post
Well speaking from experience. I have spent the past 4 years doing volunteer tech support at my old high school. IGPs are one of the most common things that fail.
Which ones?
Quote:
Perhpas you didn't notice, but this is the "Building, Buying, or Upgrading High Performance PC Systems" section. IGPs are not, never have been and most likely never will be high end.
Relative to what?
790GX is a high-performance IGP. It's basically leaps and bounds ahead of any other IGP, except for an overclocked 780G.
And unless you're anal about an insignificantly small probability of failure that you could easily apply to every other component in the system, it's not going to hurt having a high-end IGP in your system, even if you're not going to use it.
It's certainly not hurting your wallet.
Quote:
So what you are saying is, you wouldn't endorse, recommend or buy Intel
Yes. I don't have to endorse a company I don't like.
But if there were no realistic alternatives, I wouldn't enter the thread and endorse or recommend anything.
Quote:
even if every other chip makers chips were having 80% fail rates and were half the performance and double the price of Intel chips?
No. But again, red herring.
It's not like you keep hearing of 790GX boards spontaneously dying, with or without people using the IGP's.
The only major issues with current GPU's and failure rates recently have been with Nvidia 8600M and 8400M GPU's

*edit*
Originally I just entered the thread to correct a couple of things that I saw as wrong.
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Old 09-06-2008, 03:35 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD or Intel?

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Originally Posted by NosBoost300 View Post
awww thanks, i've applied many times
lol you and me both....
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Old 09-06-2008, 03:50 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD or Intel?

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Which ones?
The school district buys dell and has many old machines so the bulk of the igps are via and intel. However they do have some gateway laptops with Turions and a few of them are out of action from general mobo issues. Guess who makes their chipsets.



Quote:
Relative to what?
High performance components mostly.


Quote:
790GX is a high-performance IGP. It's basically leaps and bounds ahead of any other IGP, except for an overclocked 780G.
Maybe so but it doesn't hold a grain of hope against modern dedicated cards. It may play Crysis on the lowest settings and lowest resolution but that is hardly "high performance" compared to the rest of the market.

To be High performance the component has to be in the upper crust. a HD4870 is high performance your 780G is not.


Quote:
And unless you're anal about an insignificantly small probability of failure that you could easily apply to every other component in the system
I am anal about my parts. I hate it when my stuff breaks. I have ahd friends cut corners and pay for it many times. Some people never learn. The way to avoid that is to buy quality components. If they do fail you know they will have a good warranty.

And speaking of AMD reliability. I have a buddy who has an AM2 system. he had a great deal of trouble getting the **** thing to work. The motherboard failed two or three times before he finally got it working. He never could get a good OC and he was always disappointed with its gaming performance. Funny thing is, before he had that one he had a P4 prescott, and there are many funny stories about that system too.


Quote:
It's not like you keep hearing of 790GX boards spontaneously dying, with or without people using the IGP's.
Of course not. But that's wasn't the point of my comment. The point was to show that you are biased against one companies products for unfair reasons. That sort of bias has no place in a forum where the goal is to recommend what is best for the consumer. By purposely excluding a company you have already defeated that purpose.
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Old 09-06-2008, 04:06 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD or Intel?

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Originally Posted by zmatt View Post
The school district buys dell and has many old machines so the bulk of the igps are via and intel. However they do have some gateway laptops with Turions and a few of them are out of action from general mobo issues. Guess who makes their chipsets.
Sometimes ATI, sometimes Nvidia. None of them are 790GX.
Quote:
High performance components mostly.
790GX is a high performance component (both the board itself and the IGP, relative to other IGP's)
Quote:
Maybe so but it doesn't hold a grain of hope against modern dedicated cards.
Yeah, but it basically comes free with the motherboard.
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It may play Crysis on the lowest settings and lowest resolution
It can do better than that.
Quote:
but that is hardly "high performance" compared to the rest of the market.
It's high performance compared to the rest of the IGP's.
Quote:
To be High performance the component has to be in the upper crust.
According to whose arbitrary definition of high-end?
I mean, of course I'm not trying to argue that a 790GX will replace a dedicated video card. But if it comes free with the motherboard (which itself is high-end), which you can use two dedicated video cards in crossfire anyway, and will run circles around pretty much every other IGP, why complain about it?
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a HD4870 is high performance your 780G is not.
Again, relative to what? (by actually specifying something, you are still making an arbitrary judgement)
and according to whose arbitrary definition of high performance?
Quote:
I am anal about my parts. I hate it when my stuff breaks. I have ahd friends cut corners and pay for it many times. Some people never learn. The way to avoid that is to buy quality components. If they do fail you know they will have a good warranty.
790GX boards are high-quality.
Quote:
And speaking of AMD reliability. I have a buddy who has an AM2 system. he had a great deal of trouble getting the **** thing to work. The motherboard failed two or three times before he finally got it working. He never could get a good OC and he was always disappointed with its gaming performance. Funny thing is, before he had that one he had a P4 prescott, and there are many funny stories about that system too.
And this is anecdotal evidence based on one person's experience using one system from each brand, which could easily be countered with examples from another person with the opposite experience.
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Of course not. But that's wasn't the point of my comment. The point was to show that you are biased against one companies products
Not their products, the company itself.
And as I said, if I didn't think there was any realistic alternative, I wouldn't be recommending anything.
But I am. Which means I do think what I'm recommending is a realistic alternative, which in this case is a high performance set of products at a good price.
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for unfair reasons.
Do you even know the reasons I don't like Intel?
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That sort of bias has no place in a forum where the goal is to recommend what is best for the consumer.
That's begging the question.
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By purposely excluding a company you have already defeated that purpose.
Not when the entire reason I don't like the company is because that company is an anti-competitive bully which tries to stifle competition, and hence, not have to innovate, which would make us, the customers, lose.
Kinda like Creative or Microsoft.

And then there's also my other point; that I wouldn't be recommending anything if I didn't think it was a viable option, irrespective of who made it.
At the same time, I won't recommend Intel.

In other words, whether I'd recommend something depends on both whether it's not from Intel, and whether it's a viable, competitive and cost effective option.
Which doesn't mean I'm absolutely against people having products from Intel; just that I'm not going to recommend those products to them.
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Old 09-06-2008, 04:13 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD or Intel?

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Originally Posted by Apokalipse View Post
er, but also improved transistor design, and lower power leakage)

*edit*
I meant the latest batch that everyone has been *****ing about. Mine performs just fine for me.
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Old 09-06-2008, 04:19 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by zmatt View Post

Maybe so but it doesn't hold a grain of hope against modern dedicated cards. It may play Crysis on the lowest settings and lowest resolution but that is hardly "high performance" compared to the rest of the market.

To be High performance the component has to be in the upper crust. a HD4870 is high performance your 780G is not.
It IS high performance. It's the best IGP out there. And when you have your 4870 volt modded and your just on tech forums... you can switch off onto that IGP and save yourself some energy, right?

ALSO it makes upgrading slightly easier because if you have to sell your card, you have a backup solution at all times. Instead of doing the... go to circuit city... buy an 8500 gt... return it in a week or sell it.


edit: Oh darn. I double posted

Could someone combine them -_- Sorry
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Old 09-06-2008, 04:24 PM   #50 (permalink)
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And this is anecdotal evidence based on one person's experience using one system from each brand, which could easily be countered with examples from another person with the opposite experience.
You use unsubstantiated evidence more than I. You always say things like "I think phenom wasn't meant for 65nm" or "I have seen reports of insert unrealistic claim here" Most of your argument is based on opinion. At least I have some benchmarks.



Quote:
Sometimes ATI, sometimes Nvidia. None of them are 790GX.
They don't buy phenom systems. But its a fair reflection of the QC in general.


Quote:
Not when the entire reason I don't like the company is because that company is an anti-competitive bully which tries to stifle competition, and hence, not have to innovate, which would make us, the customers, lose.
That is a poor reason. By purchasing inferior products then you are hurting yourself and sending AMD the message "its ok, we like your over priced and under powered processors". If you really want them to get the message then buy whats best. By rejecting the competition in your mind you are curbing capitalism. Its economic survival of the fittest. If a company can't compete then they don't deserve to have the consumers money and they die. If AMD takes a hard enough hit then they will realize "he may this architecture does suck" and will re think their design plans. We did this to Intel because the Pentium 4 was unacceptable and look what they came out with.



Quote:
That's begging the question.
Only if you think that we aren't supposed to recommend the best to the forum goers.


You know I thought about grabbing the definition of high performance but I realized its useless. You are arguing semantics with me because you know you cant argue facts.
It is a generally accepted notion in the enthusiast community that IGPs are not high performance. By questioning my definition of high performance you completely dodge the issue and call into question the competence of power users the world around. If IGPs were so good don't you think every one would be using them? We would never buy a video card again. And before you go on about it being the best IGP it matters not. It IS a fair comparison between IGPs and Video cards because they are both GPUs and fulfill the same task. A low end current gen card beat an IGP. If a non-high performance card beats it then the IGP is nowhere near "high performance".

Also, haven't you taken into consideration that if AMD were in the position Intel is in that they would exactly the same? They aren't some prefect little under dog company. The execs at AMD are just as blood thirsty as the ones at Intel. Do not fool yourself.
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