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Old 02-16-2014, 05:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 2ND Build to replace 7 year old MSI Platinum P35

How can I have a headache, if I have no brains????

My MSI Platinum has been issue-free for seven years, and seems to be a stable board for me, IF...only I could find a replacement Mobo that does not have all the Gaming, and Overclocking features that I will never use. Personal preference....some think MSI is trash, some think ASUS is superior to most, Unless someone can tell me lots of cons to not buy a MSI board, I will stay with them. Then again, What a gigabyte?

Since it's been seven years since my last build, there are too many choices picking out the right MOBO/CPU/GPU Combo, in which I do not personally over-clock, or game, although most I've seen are mostly made for "GAMING", and have "OVER-CLOCKING" capabilities. So I guess whether I want it or not, I'll have to pick one, since I do not want to buy an already pre-loaded generic brand, nor can I afford a "CUSTOM", made to order PC. As long as I have HDMI, and PCIe-16x, Max. 32GB DDR3 (1600)

MSI suggested I go with the MSI Z87-MPOWER BOARD. (ASUS is especially known for building Gaming/OC Boards) Some have suggested the ASUS X79 PRO, and SABERTOOTH models, which for me, are way too much overkill. So, it's either the Mpower,or Z87-G43, or 45.

At this point, I want to save some money by simply getting the Haswell 4770, 3.4GHz, without the 'K', since I want to remain using the stock board speed. (Saved about $30.00+)

I don't fault the guy from Microcenter for trying to get me to buy more over the top components, to up his commission. he suggested this:
The ASUS P9x79 PRO 2011, at $270.00, (Was bundled at Microcenter with the i7 4820 Quad Channel $300.00. FOR $535.00)

I'm kicking around this, although I mind is not completely made up:
1) MOBO - ATX
MSI Z87-G45 with the 1150 LGA Socket (Dual Channel) $145.00 (MAX.32 GB)
(NOT SURE IF I CAN AFFORD THE QUAD CHANNEL, or stick with the DUAL.
2) CPU -
i7 4th G. 4770 3.4 Haswell (no 'K', no need overclocking) $280.00
3) MEMORY -
Crucial DDR3 XM53 (2x8GB) 16GB of 1600hz memory (Board max. is 32GB) $160.00
(Dual or Quad channel, don't know yet) (I don't think I need more than 32GB)
4) PSU-
Replace my 7 yr. old Thermaltake 700W PSU, with either the ANTEC VP550F G-
Series SSR-550 RM $60.00, OR... CM Coolermaster Elite V2 550W $60.00.
I have been told that 700W was way overkill, and I would simply need between a
500w-550w.
5) GPU-
MSI N650-MDI/OC GTX650 2GB ($130.00) OR
ASUS GTX650 Ti GDDR5 2GB ($162.00)
6) Keeping my CM Coolermaster 690 ATX case, since it's roomy enough and I installed five
additional fans. (fingers crossed, that the power button won't fail anytime soon)
7) CPU HEATSINK FAN -
Coolermaster EVO 212 Fry's $35.00/ Microcenter $30.00 OR
ZALMAN CNPS9500A LED Universal -Newegg - $40.00.
8) Some type of Combo DVD/CD/BD Writer/Reader

9) HARD DRIVES - All this talk about the SSD'S, and their short-lived longevity?? You know how problematic, time consuming, and frustrating it is when you have to format/wipe an old or new drive, and spend hours RE-installing the O.S., Hardware, Programs/Applications, Update 64 Bit Drivers, .....Well, who wants to do this every few years, then only to replace the more expensive SSD's all over again. I think this time around, I'll buy a faster 250GB (10,000rpms) than the standard (72,000rpms) HHD to boot applications, and have it last longer, regardless of how speedy they seem to be. Besides, I have no problems with my present WD 74GB Raptor, other than now, even with no video content on it, just the bare programs, and the Win7 64 Bit O.S., now has a dangerously small 5.5GB left on this drive, so with Win7, I've tried deleting useless files, run disk cleaner, deleted unwanted programs that take up HD space to make more room, but, it's almost full anyway, so I will not do any more video editing until I change over to the new build.

Now that I will have the
(1) 250GB HDD, (BOOT) 10,000 rpms Load/Unload cycles ($90.00) Newegg
(2) 74GB Raptor HDD, (Storage) 72,000 rpms
(3) 2TB WD HDD, (Storage) 72,000 rpms
(4) 500GB HDD, (Storage) 72,000 rpms
TWO ADDITIONAL EXTERNAL HDDs (5) SEAGATE 3TB HDD, (6) WD 500GB HDD

With all of this, would I still need only a 500-550W PSU?
The consensus from others, is to either keep using the existing 700w, ( 7 year old Thermaltake) until it dies, or replace the PSU every time you do a rebuild. If I sell it, would anyone want it?
I thought with the GPU, the i7, and all the HDD's, I would need more power than 500W/550W. (ATX)

Whatever I upgrade with, will no doubt be a dramatic change from what I have now, from seven years ago. And since I am an video enthusiast that dabbles with Pinnacle Studio HD, and Photoshop CS5 with 3D, I would like to get a board that I may upgrade later on, with an CPU upgrade, and maybe more memory, but it is not a deal breaker if I get a board that does not.

And wouldn't you know it, The DDR4 is coming out soon.....I'm still using DDR2!
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Old 02-16-2014, 07:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2ND Build to replace 7 year old MSI Platinum P35

Looks o.k. but why do you need the CM 212 or the ZALMAN CNPS9500A if your running stock on the CPU?

Here's a list of MSI 1150 Z87 boards, you can get a more plain-jane board with out the fancy "gamming" extra's
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...me=Intel%20Z87

A 250 gb SSD drive would outlive a standard platter hard drive, plus better operation. (they are rated for 2 million hours of use = Mean Time Before Failure) and most SSD drives have equal if not better warranties than the platters drives too.

A 650ti video card is really outdated by today's standards, I've had mine for a couple years now and some of these Nvidia cards have issues with the newer drivers, I know that my card does, If your going to edit video, get a more up to date GPU

I think the Antec and Corsair PSU's are about equal for quality but I personally like the Corsair brand myself
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:05 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2ND Build to replace 7 year old MSI Platinum P35

Not leaving you hanging, just lots of stuff to take care of.
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Old 02-17-2014, 01:25 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2ND Build to replace 7 year old MSI Platinum P35

Well first things first, if you don't overclock you absolutely do not need an expensive board nor do you need a Z87 board. If you don't game then there isn't much need for a GPU either. The 700w PSU is indeed overkill but there isn't a need to upgrade that either if it is still going strong. I've had my own 1000w Thermaltake since 2008 and although it's overkill (as is my other Corsair HX850) for my current rig there isn't a reason in the world to spend more money.

Here's the deal, you need to figure out how much cash you want to spend and if it's worth your cash to spend 500 dollars on a 6 core or 300 on a 4 core i7. That will determine what platform you want. The 3rd gen 4930k will wipe the floor CLEAN of the 4th gen 4770 in the applications you want to use. I currently have a 2nd gen 3960x and stock vs stock I can still outdo my buddies 4770k in most CPU heavy applications.
The thing is, the 4930k uses the X79 platform vs the 4770 you mentioned previously can use a B85 board which you can get cheap and do the same functions as the more expensive Z87 boards. You're looking at two different platforms here, socket 2011(X79) and socket 1150 (B85/H87/Z87 chipsets). Think of it like the old days, where X79 was the brand new X58 vs people still using the P45/X48 boards using Core 2. With the X79 and 4930k you have 6 cores and 12 threads at your disposal and you can have support for up to 64GB of RAM which will cost a pretty penny. The 1150 platform only supports a max of 32GB. We can determine more on that once you provide a budget.

As to your SSD assumption, they can last as long if not longer than HDDs due to the fact that they have no moving parts. The storage solution of the computer is the absolute slowest piece of hardware in your machine. Don't look at SSDs for their throughput, as that's rather irrelevant when comparing to HDDs. Look at them for their lack of moving parts. No latency, no seek, instant program loads. You use Photoshop correct? They do a comparison of loads here in the video I link (Your CPU and modern games: A guide to those building.). This also translates to scratchdisk performance as well as photo/video loads for renders and everything in between. Get yourself a 250GB SSD (Samsung EVO is my full recommendation) and use a platter drive as your large storage drive. The speed difference you'll find is ridiculous compared to your aging Raptor. I have 3 of those in RAID 0 and they don't even compare to the first gen SSD I used to have (which is also still running in another users machine). Faster RPMs in a platter drive simply don't do them justice. You get faster throughput, but that isn't everything. Latency is where it's at.

As to the DDR4 comment, sure it's coming the end of this year. Thing is, slow DDR3 (1333) isn't even a bandwidth bottleneck yet. We have DDR3 speeds of 2400+ and it's absolutely useless right now besides very specific applications.
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2ND Build to replace 7 year old MSI Platinum P35

Hi All!
My Budget is about 700.00, or less. This is a skeleton list of potential parts, so I will take all of the previous suggestions to heart, nothing is concrete, just fine-tuning. I'm just going to go with the G41 on a LGA 1150 Socket, because anything is faster and better than my P35/Q6600 2.4/8GB DDR2.

Boy, did I ever get a lot of suggestions on which parts I would need for a new rebuild, according to your own personal experiences, but I have to decide and get down to it.
I thank you all! I'm not really out of the woods yet, getting these parts is one side of the coin, now I have to install and make it all work, flawlessly, I'm hoping!

Don't laugh, and since I am still somewhat of a newbie, this will be my 2nd build) So if there are any good tutorials on self building a computer, I welcome that, since it has been seven years and I may be rusty.

So I'll need to know exactly when to install the OS, Hard drive, (maybe boot drive first alone,) then install other storage HDD'S, then comes the MoBo Utilities, Software, Drivers, ETC., and so forth....I don't build everyday, so one little mistake can ruin everything.

To save money, I'm going to BUY these components:
(1) Z87-G41 & Intel i7 4770K (even though I do not overclock, or game) COMBO @ Micro center for $290.00.
(2) CPU HeatsinK - Artic Freezer- $24.99 (newegg) OR Zalman CNP52X 80mm Aluminum and Copper heatsink, (copper for better cooling) for $28.99 (newegg)
(3) Crucial 120GB SSD for O.S. / Programs OR Samsung 256GB SSD for O.S. / Programs.
(4) Corsair/Kingston 8GB DDR3 (1600Hz) PC12800 (some say the 1866, not much different)

AND WILL BE KEEPING MY PRESENT DEVICES FOR NEW BUILD.....
(1) ATX CASE, Cooler Master cm690, (I'll need header for Front USB/eSata/Audio/Mic/headphone 3.5" Slot. (present case has old 2.0 USB's/esata/firewire)
(2) Use the onboard i7's IGP, for 4600 HD Video Editing, or if that doesn't work, maybe get 2GB GeForce GTX-650Ti GPU, but been told that this 4600 HD IGP, is as good as my old 8600GT GPU, I don't game, so it should not matter as much.
In fact, in a pinch, my Geforce 8600GT should also work with my G41, for the time being, since I do not play video games.
(3) And for internal storage, keeping my old WD74GB Raptor,10,000rpms, WD 2TB 72,000rpms, and WD500GB 72,000rpms.
(4) Use the Onboard Realtek HD Audio.

(5) Thermatake 700W ( It's six years old, and going strong, BUT.... if this old PSU is not certified to work on a LGA 1150 Board...Pins might not work, and not support Quad core CPU, then I'll have to replace.
I can't think of anything else at the moment, so I would imagine this will be sufficient.

Thanks!
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2ND Build to replace 7 year old MSI Platinum P35

You don't need the K series or Z87 board since you aren't overclocking. That's literally cash wasted. For an SSD, go with the Samsung EVO whether it be 120GB or 250GB.
You would be better off with 16GB of RAM in 1600 flavor. There is no benefit going any faster.

The IGP in the i7 supports more than the 8600GT so you're better of using it.

Not to be nit picky but it's 7200rpm. Your current PSU is fine.
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:28 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2ND Build to replace 7 year old MSI Platinum P35

Thanks PP!
Thanks for clearing that up...I wish it was 72,000 RPMS! I would get alot more done.
PP, I hear you about the K, since I'm not OC'ing, or gaming, same with the Z87 chipset, I just thought maybe down the line, if I did get interested in gaming, it would be all ready to go.

The reason I would be going with the i7 4770K, and the MSI Z87-G41, is primarily because Micro Center has a combo for $289.98, for both. The i7 4770K alone is $250.00. That's the cheapest I've seen anywhere so far. But because of the low price, they ran out of the CPU.

Frys has i7 4770 for $280.00 / i7 4770K for $340.00 / i7 4771 for $319.00. They also do not carry the Z87-G41, but they do have the MSI H87-G43 Mobo for $100.00. ( and the Z87-G45, and Z87-G43. tanks again!
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:39 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2ND Build to replace 7 year old MSI Platinum P35

I have to disagree with you PP. That (MSI) B85 board is a lower priced board, and you'll only get two memory slots, no HDMI ports and other options that would affect more than just gamming. The B85 is a cheaper board and you'll get less with it. Here is a comparison chart for several 1150 boards
Temporary comparison table | Hardware.Info United States
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:45 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2ND Build to replace 7 year old MSI Platinum P35

Quote:
Originally Posted by rivrbyte View Post
Thanks PP!
Thanks for clearing that up...I wish it was 72,000 RPMS! I would get alot more done.
PP, I hear you about the K, since I'm not OC'ing, or gaming, same with the Z87 chipset, I just thought maybe down the line, if I did get interested in gaming, it would be all ready to go.

The reason I would be going with the i7 4770K, and the MSI Z87-G41, is primarily because Micro Center has a combo for $289.98, for both. The i7 4770K alone is $250.00. That's the cheapest I've seen anywhere so far. But because of the low price, they ran out of the CPU.

Frys has i7 4770 for $280.00 / i7 4770K for $340.00 / i7 4771 for $319.00. They also do not carry the Z87-G41, but they do have the MSI H87-G43 Mobo for $100.00. ( and the Z87-G45, and Z87-G43. tanks again!
You won't need to OC for gaming, as is the expensive part of that CPU that you need for your productivity programs won't get used in gaming either which would be HT. I'm not telling you to get a 4670k because you don't plan on gaming right now and you have a legitimate use for an i7. That being said just grab the 4770 from Fry's and grab this board from Newegg. You'll save the money in order to get yourself 16GB of RAM which you'll benefit more from like I said earlier.
Newegg.com - MSI B85-G41 PC Mate LGA 1150 Intel B85 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX High Performance CF Intel Motherboard

The motherboard doesn't make or break gaming. Putting "gaming" in the name is just marketing. In fact, you'll get the same experience from gaming with any board on the market really if you are getting 8GB of RAM and just a single graphics card. The main piece that makes or breaks gaming is the GPU. You get something cheap like the 650ti you won't be doing much gaming. Light weight at best. Something to think about which is why I'm trying to save you money now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe C View Post
I have to disagree with you PP. That (MSI) B85 board is a lower priced board, and you'll only get two memory slots, no HDMI ports and other options that would affect more than just gamming. The B85 is a cheaper board and you'll get less with it. Here is a comparison chart for several 1150 boards
Temporary comparison table | Hardware.Info United States
The MSI B85 board I linked is cheaper, has 4 RAM slots, 2 PCI-E slots, PCI slots, DVI/VGA and HDMI. How exactly is that not giving him the same experience? It won't affect his productivity or "gaming" at all considering he'll be using just the IGP at first anyways.
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Old 02-19-2014, 03:27 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: 2ND Build to replace 7 year old MSI Platinum P35

The OP stated he wanted an MSI board. I didn't see any MSI boards that have four memory slots. Thanks for clearing that up.
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