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Old 01-14-2007, 03:00 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by TriEclipse
When people start talking this, I give up hope. You come here looking for advice, and then you take it and throw it out the window. Perhaps we know a little bit about what we're talking about, having been working with computers for a few years now?

I've seen builds twice as intensive as yours, on 500W-550W PSUs. Those builds have overkill PSUs in them. Get the idea?

Perhaps you should take the time to read the sticky on the subject.
Oh don't be like that. I think the fact that I've changed multiple components based on the suggestions of others is proof that I don't "throw your advice out the window."

And I've read that post about PSU's before. It's intelligent and very well written, but it also doesn't change the fact that on my last build, I have a 450 watt PSU and the system craps out on me when I play modern games. And its not even that high-end a system. This makes me a bit hesitant to get a PSU with only a slightly larger output on a much more demanding system.

I'm not pretending to know more than you people, but my experiences make me want to play it safe (to a large degree).

I'm assuming there aren't any problems with the other parts.
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Old 01-14-2007, 03:20 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Animemandan
Oh don't be like that. I think the fact that I've changed multiple components based on the suggestions of others is proof that I don't "throw your advice out the window."

And I've read that post about PSU's before. It's intelligent and very well written, but it also doesn't change the fact that on my last build, I have a 450 watt PSU and the system craps out on me when I play modern games. And its not even that high-end a system. This makes me a bit hesitant to get a PSU with only a slightly larger output on a much more demanding system.

I'm not pretending to know more than you people, but my experiences make me want to play it safe (to a large degree).

I'm assuming there aren't any problems with the other parts.
And thats Fine, But Please go with the 750 Watt PC Power and cooling silencer. Before I pop a vein.....
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Old 01-14-2007, 03:23 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I wouldn't mind that, except for two things:

1. It's out of stock.

2. I've been told PC Power and Cooling has unusual dimensions, so I don't know if it would fit in the case I am getting, and I don't know how to mod cases to accomodate its dimensions if it doesn't fit. Whereas a friend of mine has the PSU I originally posted, says it fits his full ATX tower and works perfectly.
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Old 01-14-2007, 03:30 PM   #24 (permalink)
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is it just me or are all your links broken on that last build post?
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Old 01-14-2007, 03:31 PM   #25 (permalink)
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It doesn't have werid Dimensions. And You don't have to order off newegg. In fact search for some of your parts on zipzoomfly, you may find cheaper deals.

http://www.pcpower.com/products/view...php?show=S75QB

You can order it directly off of their home site for cheaper.

Trust ME!,
PC Power and Cooling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TT


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Old 01-14-2007, 06:23 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Animemandan
And I've read that post about PSU's before. It's intelligent and very well written, but it also doesn't change the fact that on my last build, I have a 450 watt PSU and the system craps out on me when I play modern games. And its not even that high-end a system. This makes me a bit hesitant to get a PSU with only a slightly larger output on a much more demanding system.
I see. So I'm going to try to convince you otherwise again.

The wattage of a PSU is a lame way to measure the actual output of a PSU. The total wattage given is the sum of all of the rails on a PSU added up (+3.3V, +5V, +12V1, +12V2, -12V, +5VSB). The way PSU companies will trick you, is by bumping up the Amps on the red rails. These rails are relatively minor, and don't really provide power to any of the major components of your system. However, they still count towards the total power output of the PSU, and this can skewer the numbers. The blue rails, are the important ones. The +12v rails are the ones that provide most of the power to the major parts in your system. The more Amps on this rail, the more power will be supplied to your system.

Example; 400W Forton PSU and 580W Hiper. Both are excellent PSU makers. Look at this;

Forton - +3.3V@22A, +5V@21A, +12V1@18A, +12V2@16A, -12V@0.3A, +5VSB@2A.

Hiper - +3.3V@30A,+5V@36A,+12V1@20A,+12V2@18A,-12V@0.8A,+5VSB@2.5A.

The 580W Hiper PSU has 4Amps more on it's +12v rails than the Forton does. Is 4Amps worth the difference of 180W? Don't make me laugh. So that would mean that this Forton that has been "labeled" 400W is near equal in power to a 580W PSU. Wattage doesn't mean jack.

That 450W PSU that you had was most likely by a bad maker, and had very few amps on the +12v rails. I had a 350W PSU with only 13A on the +12v rail, that's below the minimum required for an Athlon 64 system to even function.
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Old 01-14-2007, 06:40 PM   #27 (permalink)
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trieclipse is right
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Old 01-14-2007, 07:04 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Hmm...ok then.

What is the point of the non-12V rails, if they are so trivial? Are multiple 12V rails with lower amps preferable to a single 12V rail with high amps, or the other way around?
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Old 01-14-2007, 07:12 PM   #29 (permalink)
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The non-[+12v] rails are minor, and while they do provide power to other components, PSUs have evolved enough that there are usually more than enough Amps on those rails in any PSU that you buy. Note: NOT a good reason to buy a bad PSU.

Multiple +12v rails are the best, and are the new standard. A while ago, Intel discovered that having too many Amps on one +12v rail led to unstable and "dirty" power. Thus, Intel required PSU makers to switch to a new format and make multiple +12v rails with a tentative max of 18A on each rail (a little over is ok, more than 4A over the limit is bad).

Note that a lot of High-End 600W+ PSUs do have a lot of Amps on the +12v rails. However, this advantage is moot as that much power is overkill by a ridiculous margin. You aren't any more likely to use the 72Amps on the 4 +12v rails on a OCZ GameXStream 750W than you are to max out the 38Amps provided by the Hiper. You should have atleast 30A in a PSU.
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Old 01-14-2007, 07:34 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Allow me to continue playing devils advocate, as it were.

I found this under PSU Myths at the PC Power and Cooling website.

5. AN SLI CERTIFIED POWER SUPPLY WILL ALWAYS POWER HIGH-END GRAPHICS CARDS?
We went through three power supplies before we found one that consistently worked with these high-end graphics cards and an FX-60. We initially started with a Silverstone 600W SLI certified power supply, but running some games resulted in the system powering down under full load. We next moved onto a higher rated Thermaltake PurePower SLI certified 680W unit. But while most games ran most of the time, the system would still occasionally shut down. Finally, we ended up using PC Power and Cooling's massive TurboCool 850 SSI. This just goes to show that if you really want to build something that pushes the bleeding edge, make sure you have the right power supply.
(http://www.pcpower.com/technology/myths/)

I couldn't quickly find TT PurePower 680W specs, but I found the 600W mdel, and it has 18 amps coming out of 2 12V rails, surpassing your minimum of 30 amps by 6. Assuming that the 680W model couldn't be any worse off, how do you explain the lack of ability for this PSU to run a system which should supposedly only need a 450W PSU?

(I realize what PC Power and Cooling has to gain from bashing their competition, but a claim like this must have some semblance of truth to it, ja?)
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