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Old 04-01-2016, 10:30 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Upgrade or new build?

Thanks for the build list, I really appreciate it. Part of why we want him to go with an i7 is for future proofing. In a couple years if games do start taking advantage of it we want him to have it. This build isn't just for an immediate improvement, it's for consistent performance down the line. Basically he wants this build for the next 5 years with only swapping in a new GPU every so often. He's going to wait until the fall up upgrade his GPU when the next gen gpus have come down a little bit.

But thanks to you both, I think I've gotten the info I need. I will probably be back with some questions as they pertain to the build itself as I haven't done it in a few years and will be a little rusty.

Thanks again.
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Old 04-01-2016, 12:20 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Upgrade or new build?

HT will not be utilized in gaming like it does multi-threaded productivity apps even within DX12. The main object for DX12 is to reduce overhead so the CPU bottleneck is reduced at a down to metal level. Any advances in that will utilize the resources freed up for draw calls and AI. Not necessarily use more threads. That's why I'm continuously saying there's no need for an i7. Furthermore, the argument for streaming for anybody that has a modern AMD or Nvidia graphics card streaming is done with the GPU and not CPU. HT isn't future proofing unless you're using productivity software due to how virtual threads work.

Like I said before, if your buddy wants to buy an i7 or new platform then that's on him. Any kind of future proofing for gaming needs to be done for GPU which is where I was going in my initial posts. Your bud could get a 2500k and it'd be future proofed.
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Old 04-01-2016, 12:24 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Upgrade or new build?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PP Mguire View Post
I had already told him twice the list he had was fine for what they wanted.
I'm not trying to step in on your territory or anything. I just didn't think it would hurt to give him a part list that is better than what he had listed, yet cheaper than what he was asking for.

This forum has always been really territorial for some reason.
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Old 04-01-2016, 12:29 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Upgrade or new build?

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Originally Posted by forrestcupp View Post
I'm not trying to step in on your territory or anything. I just didn't think it would hurt to give him a part list that is better than what he had listed, yet cheaper than what he was asking for.

This forum has always been really territorial for some reason.
Not territorial, just think what's being argued vs wants/needs are different and simply calling the BS.

First it was the RTS game and I gave reasoning why it's a bad idea. Now the excuse is future proofing. The reason why I said the list will be fine is because they will get what they want regardless of who provides what worth of info. I see it all the time here and that's why my attitude towards the subject is exactly what it is.
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Old 04-01-2016, 12:47 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Upgrade or new build?

It isn't an "excuse." He does not want to purchase parts he will need and have to upgrade again. From the get go he wanted to future proof and run total war well, which has always been a CPU intensive game.

Is the 980 a worthwhile upgrade over the 780? Or would it be better to wait for the new cards? I know sometimes new end up just being rebranded old cards that consume less power. I could upgrade to a 980 for about $200 out of pocket when I sell my 780.

EA also recommends an i7, so that is also part of the reason we have been leaning towards an i7.


edit: his CPU is an AMD FX 4100 quad core 3.6ghz. Is an i5 even a worthwhile upgrade from this then? Or are you both positing that this processor is fine too?
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Old 04-01-2016, 12:57 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Thresh25 View Post
It isn't an "excuse." He does not want to purchase parts he will need and have to upgrade again. From the get go he wanted to future proof and run total war well, which has always been a CPU intensive game.

Is the 980 a worthwhile upgrade over the 780? Or would it be better to wait for the new cards? I know sometimes new end up just being rebranded old cards that consume less power. I could upgrade to a 980 for about $200 out of pocket when I sell my 780.

EA also recommends an i7, so that is also part of the reason we have been leaning towards an i7.


edit: his CPU is an AMD FX 4100 quad core 3.6ghz. Is an i5 even a worthwhile upgrade from this then? Or are you both positing that this processor is fine too?
And I just explained in several posts why this is flawed thinking.

The new cards are coming out in fall, they will be exceptionally faster than a 780. I'd suggest you wait for that since you already have a decent card.

I explained this too, I'll go into detail. AMD hasn't come out with a high end desktop CPU since 2012 and so therefor EA and all the others will suggest an i7 along with an 8350 due to the logical core count being the same. It's all in the name of "fair". Oculus so far is the only company I know of that simply states flat out "AMD doesn't have enough single threaded performance".

This is why I suggested in the first post his original specs. Yes an i5 from 2nd gen on up is a huge leap from an FX4100. It's a dual core with 4 logical threads and **** for IPC. If he didn't want to drop all that cash now he could get a secondhand 8320 and call it day until Intel releases something actually worth buying. Something in the neighborhood of 120 bucks is a lot cheaper than spending 400 or whatever on a whole platform jump.

Edit: I'm bringing my 3rd Titan X home to toss in her AMD rig and will show you the difference in unit size on Atilla so you can see what I mean first hand.
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Old 04-01-2016, 01:16 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Sorry I'm a little confused by your last post. If the i5 is a huge jump from his current processor, then isn't his current processor due for an upgrade?
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Old 04-01-2016, 02:31 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Short and simple. The i5 is a big leap if you equate more than just Total War. The difference in Total War shouldn't be that much. Is it due for an upgrade overall? Yes. Should he upgrade for just this game? I don't think so.

You can literally Google the amount of people saying the new one will run like **** unless they use DX12 and I can agree. Any RTS still putting along with a terrible AI engine will hold back performance no matter the CPU in the machine. That's been my point all along. If he wants to JUST play this game ONLY then ****, he'd be better off grabbing a used 6300 and calling it a day. Just my 2c.
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Old 04-01-2016, 02:49 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Upgrade or new build?

Thanks I see what you're saying now. I probably wasn't super clear, he plays a lot more games than I. He wants to be ready for the new battlefield, No man's sky, the division, etc.

The only game I really play is total war. I think I am going to have him upgrade his CPU and he will upgrade his GPU in the fall. I am going to wait it out and see how the game runs on my current build and then evaluate from there.

Thanks for all the help. It got testy at times but I appreciate the information nonetheless.
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:41 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Upgrade or new build?

If he upgrades his GPU in the fall then by all means. I don't really support the decision of the i7 but if he has the budget might as well. Just make sure he has an SSD too.
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