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Old 05-31-2008, 11:57 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: Replacing integrated graphics with an AGP card?

You could get a system with a 780G board (worlds best onboard video card, will perform significantly better than the FX-5200)
then pair it with a dual core or even a triple core processor

Centre Com Online
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Old 05-31-2008, 06:42 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: Replacing integrated graphics with an AGP card?

like everybody said there is really nothing to worry about, as long as you know if the parts you get will work with each other everything should be fine. there are loads of detailed guides on google with images to help. also some places will sell you the parts, and put them together for you for a small cost. i think its about £10 here, i dont know what that is in dollars, but compared to what you spent on your computer it will be nothing i imagine.
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Old 05-31-2008, 09:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: Replacing integrated graphics with an AGP card?

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Originally Posted by Apokalipse View Post
You could get a system with a 780G board (worlds best onboard video card, will perform significantly better than the FX-5200)
then pair it with a dual core or even a triple core processor

Centre Com Online
Well that defeats the whole purpose of a simple and cheap upgrade. That being, if i want to install such a high tech graphics card, then my motherboard, CPU, Ram and other components wouldn't match very well so i would have to replace everything. In that case i would buy a new pc, lol!

1. I am not a hardcore cutting edge gamer, yes i play games occasionally, but most are either DOS based or a few years old.
2. No, i don't have heaps of money to buy the latest and greatest system, i'm a student.
3. I really don't care to have the latest or most powerful pc or electronics gadgets, if it does what i need them i'm happy. I'm usually 2-3 years behind in the pc industry because i don't bother to keep up with developments and new products. You know the whole electronics industry is based off planned obsolescence, but i guess you wouldn't believe it, would you?
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: Replacing integrated graphics with an AGP card?

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Originally Posted by jmoussa87 View Post
Well that defeats the whole purpose of a simple and cheap upgrade.
Actually, the entire purpose of the 780G chipest is to be a simple and cheap upgrade, while still getting very good performance at the same time.

It's definitely not the absolute best graphics card. But it beats all other onboard cards (usually by a very large margin), and it'll beat the FX-5200, and it supports DirectX 10.1, and it will reduce CPU load if you want to play videos... It also includes an onboard sound card (or you could use an old PCI sound card if you have one... PCI has been around for ages and is still being used, though slowly being replaced by PCI-E)
But at the same time, it's cheap, and it's quite low on power consumption....

Basically, it's probably the best motherboard/GPU combo if you want to get the most out of your money.

Quote:
That being, if i want to install such a high tech graphics card, then my motherboard, CPU, Ram and other components wouldn't match very well so i would have to replace everything. In that case i would buy a new pc, lol!
That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.
I mean, if you know what to look for, or know people that do, then you can find the components to make what's basically a new system, for very cheap.

I mean, if a single core CPU will do the job for you, you can get something like a Sempron (single core) for about $30, which will probably be significantly better than the CPU you're running

here is a Sempron 3200+ for $25:
Topcom online)
stock speed of 2.3GHZ (equivalent to about a 3.0-3.4GHZ Pentium 4)

2GB RAM can be had for about $50-$60 - and if you don't plan on running the absolute top end games like Crysis, you can completely disable paging file, and your system will just run really smoothly (as well as using less hard drive space with no paging file)
one of the biggest reasons for unresponsiveness on computers is the need to use paging file, if there isn't enough RAM. Paging file is a file on the hard drive used like RAM; however, a hard drive is ridiculously slow compared to RAM. I'm not sure on the actual figures, but it's something lie 50-100 times slower.

here:
Centre Com Online
at the same place as the 780G motherboard I posted before

So that's about $96 for the motherboard, $25 for the CPU, $60 for the RAM
or about $180 for what's basically a new system

Quote:
1. I am not a hardcore cutting edge gamer, yes i play games occasionally, but most are either DOS based or a few years old.
2. No, i don't have heaps of money to buy the latest and greatest system, i'm a student.
3. I really don't care to have the latest or most powerful pc or electronics gadgets, if it does what i need them i'm happy. I'm usually 2-3 years behind in the pc industry because i don't bother to keep up with developments and new products. You know the whole electronics industry is based off planned obsolescence, but i guess you wouldn't believe it, would you?
Yes, I'm not going to recommend you get the best of the best.
The fact that hardware becomes obsolete is one of the reasons forums like this exist: so we can discuss and share information about current and future products and find out what's worth getting now, and what isn't, etc..
I just recommended the 780G because I'm impressed with what you get out of it for the money. And I have a system that's a lot more powerful (I spent about $300 on the motherboard, $660 on two graphics cards ($330 each) running in crossfire, $100 on RAM, $300 on the CPU, $500 on watercooling, $350 on the case, $180 on the power supply, and over $1000 on hard drives... so yeah, my system wasn't cheap)
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Old 06-01-2008, 09:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Thanks for the suggestions Apokolipse. I have heard that those Sempron CPUs are much faster than Celeron equivelants, but didn't know they equaled or were better 3ghz+ Pentium 4s. I think CPU makers release so many different models to confuse buyers, like i used to think that a Dual Core was the same thing as a Core 2 Duo, boy was i wrong! Anyways....I will keep that graphics card in mind for future updates but to be honest i don't think i would bother doing a radical upgrade on this older system. The previous owner had changed the motherboard and CPU and it is a very old case. It would be easier just to sell it used for a few hundred and splurge about $500-800 on a new system on the cheap. What is very appealing about a new system is that i can be able to use it for everything - latest 3d games, HD movies, TV tuner, music, multimedia, DVD player. It would become the central entertainment hub of my house, well atleast in my bedroom anyway. Wouldn't need my TV or DVD player, or my stereo. Even my current system does some of these tasks relatively well. I would have to get a quality 5.1 surround speakers though, and a reasonable sound card, especially if i want to watch alot of DVD movies.

You have got a hefty system there! 2 TWO Graphics cards? water cooled? wtf? ****, your power supply cost almost as much as my whole computer system! I guess you would need alot of power running all those powerful components and video cards. What is it like on power consumption?lol
Where do you procure most of your parts? From those websites you suggested to me? Do you mind posting your specs of your beasty system?

BTW, do you think i would need to replace(update to a larger capacity) my power supply to install a new graphics card? I don't know the current voltage of mine. If that is the case then i am not going to bother, because one thing will lead to another and a simple graphics card upgrade will turn into a radical system upgrade. Better off buying a new system, it really isn't worth it!!!

Just checked out that "Centre Com" website. I see that they are based in Victoria, however they ship products nationwide. There prices are very low, i just compared some products with a Sydney computer shop that is supposedly cheap and they were substantially lower all round. Freight wouldnt be that much, especially if you are purchasing a whole system, maybe $50, since i'm in Sydney.

And did i mention their website is very professional! Love it!
This company is really popular in Australia aswell, called MSY Technologies, but their website is horrible and i have been told their customer service and warranty fulfillment is pretty dodgy, i have never dealt with them yet, but they seem like a very efficient, no-frills, bang-for-your-buck type company, offering prices way below retail. MSY Technology Pty
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:08 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: Replacing integrated graphics with an AGP card?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoussa87 View Post
Thanks for the suggestions Apokolipse. I have heard that those Sempron CPUs are much faster than Celeron equivelants, but didn't know they equaled or were better 3ghz+ Pentium 4s. I think CPU makers release so many different models to confuse buyers
I know Intel deliberately confused buyers.... especially with their high GHZ numbers (higher GHZ does not always mean better performance)
I avoid buying from Intel because of their less than ethical business practices...

Quote:
like i used to think that a Dual Core was the same thing as a Core 2 Duo, boy was i wrong!
a Core 2 Duo is a dual core processor, but not the only kind. There are Athlon 64 X2's, and Pentium D's

Quote:
Anyways....I will keep that graphics card in mind for future updates but to be honest i don't think i would bother doing a radical upgrade on this older system. The previous owner had changed the motherboard and CPU and it is a very old case. It would be easier just to sell it used for a few hundred and splurge about $500-800 on a new system on the cheap. What is very appealing about a new system is that i can be able to use it for everything - latest 3d games, HD movies, TV tuner, music, multimedia, DVD player. It would become the central entertainment hub of my house, well atleast in my bedroom anyway. Wouldn't need my TV or DVD player, or my stereo. Even my current system does some of these tasks relatively well. I would have to get a quality 5.1 surround speakers though, and a reasonable sound card, especially if i want to watch alot of DVD movies.
Yeah, most new graphics cards will now take load off the CPU in video playback (ATI 2000 and 3000 series, including the 780G, and Nvidia 8000 series, including 780a)
I like the 780G especially for that... it's cheap, fast, low on power, and will run high-definition videos. Everything you'd need for a home theatre PC.
Quote:
You have got a hefty system there! 2 TWO Graphics cards? water cooled? wtf? ****, your power supply cost almost as much as my whole computer system! I guess you would need alot of power running all those powerful components and video cards. What is it like on power consumption?lol
my power supply is a Hiper Type-R 580W
not as powerful as some, but it's a good quality one, and it's modular...
The graphics cards are ATI 3870's. Fast, and also pretty good on power consumption (100W max each, but far lower than that on idle). That's one of the reasons I got two.

Quote:
Where do you procure most of your parts? From those websites you suggested to me? Do you mind posting your specs of your beasty system?
A lot of the time, I'll search on staticice.com.au
but if I need something quickly, I'll often go to MSY
centrecom is a good place though, definitely better service

Anyway, I've got:
MSI K9A2 Platinum
Athlon 64 X2 6000+ overclocked to ~3465MHZ (planning on upgrading to a Phenom 9850 Black Edition, which is quad core)
2 x ATI 3870's in crossfire + 2 x Thermalright HR-03 GT's
4 x 1GB DDR2-800
4 x 750GB + 1 x 320GB Seagate 7200.10 hard drives, and 1 x 74GB 10,000RPM Raptor
Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic (modified for better quality sound)
Swiftech MCP655 pump + Swiftech Apogee GT CPU waterblock + Thermochill PA120.3 radiator
Lian Li PC-A70 (modified to fit the watercooling all internally)
Hiper Type-R 580W
Chimei 22" LCD
Quote:
BTW, do you think i would need to replace(update to a larger capacity) my power supply to install a new graphics card?
If you get a high-end one like an 8800 series card, or ATI 2900 or 3800 series card, most likely
if you get an FX-5200 or 780G, I highly doubt it
Power supplies should say how many watts they supply on the side. One of the most important things is how many ampers it supplies at +12V

Quote:
Just checked out that "Centre Com" website. I see that they are based in Victoria, however they ship products nationwide. There prices are very low, i just compared some products with a Sydney computer shop that is supposedly cheap and they were substantially lower all round. Freight wouldnt be that much, especially if you are purchasing a whole system, maybe $50, since i'm in Sydney.
And did i mention their website is very professional! Love it!
This company is really popular in Australia aswell, called MSY Technologies, but their website is horrible and i have been told their customer service and warranty fulfillment is pretty dodgy, i have never dealt with them yet, but they seem like a very efficient, no-frills, bang-for-your-buck type company, offering prices way below retail. MSY Technology Pty
yeah, MSY is good if you know what you're getting.. but it doesn't give the same level of service as centrecom... centrecom are almost as cheap as MSY most of the time.

Sometimes I'll go to MSY if I'm planning on using hardware in a way that will void the warranty anyway
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Old 06-02-2008, 01:32 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: Replacing integrated graphics with an AGP card?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokalipse View Post
I know Intel deliberately confused buyers.... especially with their high GHZ numbers (higher GHZ does not always mean better performance)
I avoid buying from Intel because of their less than ethical business practices...
I guess that is the same with most companies in the electronics industry - inbuilt planned obsolescence to make you upgrade/replace more often and freqeuntly overstating or exageratting specifications or perfomance measures to make their products appear better than what they really function at. A
classic example is how cheap stereo systems are often advertised with their peak power measurement, not the real or constant wattage, which is very deceptive. But regarding CPUs, where else are you going to go? As far as i know Intel and AMD dominate the industry. I guess AMD must be fairer and less deceptive than Intel hence your reason for choosing it. Ultimately though, if you are fairly knowledgable about computers and keep up to date in the tech industry you shouldn't have any problems seeing through the gimmicky marketing and deceptive selling tactics, which may work on inexperienced buyers but not on tech savvy people like us.

Quote:
Anyway, I've got:
MSI K9A2 Platinum
Athlon 64 X2 6000+ overclocked to ~3465MHZ (planning on upgrading to a Phenom 9850 Black Edition, which is quad core)
2 x ATI 3870's in crossfire + 2 x Thermalright HR-03 GT's
4 x 1GB DDR2-800
4 x 750GB + 1 x 320GB Seagate 7200.10 hard drives, and 1 x 74GB 10,000RPM Raptor
Creative X-Fi XtremeMusic (modified for better quality sound)
Swiftech MCP655 pump + Swiftech Apogee GT CPU waterblock + Thermochill PA120.3 radiator
Lian Li PC-A70 (modified to fit the watercooling all internally)
Hiper Type-R 580W
Chimei 22" LCD
Wow, very impressive! That is definitely a high-end performance system. I reckon it would take atleast 5-6 years for the low-end budget computer segment to catch up with those specs, maybe in terms of memory or cpu, but definitely not graphics, if even!
You must either full install many large games or download a load of stuff to need such a crazy amount of hard drive space!
I don't even know why a computer would need to be "water cooled", must read up on that, sounds like a real PC enthusiast thing to do, lol.
[/QUOTE]

Quote:
If you get a high-end one like an 8800 series card, or ATI 2900 or 3800 series card, most likely
if you get an FX-5200 or 780G, I highly doubt it
Power supplies should say how many watts they supply on the side. One of the most important things is how many ampers it supplies at +12V

Quote:
Well that is good news, since i am only planning on getting a budget fx5200 or equivelant, and that way i won't need to worry about having inadequate power. They have one AGPX8 FX5200 in MSY for $33, very cheap.
yeah, MSY is good if you know what you're getting.. but it doesn't give the same level of service as centrecom... centrecom are almost as cheap as MSY most of the time.

Sometimes I'll go to MSY if I'm planning on using hardware in a way that will void the warranty anyway[/QUOTE]


Quote:
LOL! Gotta love MSY for their low prices and dodgy service!
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