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Old 04-04-2007, 11:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question New Computer - New Computer Builder

Hey Guys(/gals), I'm sure you hate seeing this, but guess what? I'm building a new computer. I'm on a tight budget, but want to build a system that will be highly upgradeable. I've got about $600 to spend right now and in the future plan on spending another $200 on a graphics card and another $200 on a really nice 19" monitor (this one actually); but first things first:
I will use it for both work and play. Work will be outlook, boring stuff, and some CAD (specifically Vectorworks w/renderworks if that means something to you, if not think AutoCAD). Play will be Morrowind Oblivion and MS Flight Simulator X (both after I upgrade to the new graphics card).
I already have the operating system (Win XP Pro) and I have a screen to use until I can upgrade the video card.
I don't plan on over clocking because I think its scary and I don't want to break my computer and I don't see myself wanting vista in the near future (within the next year) so that is not a gigantic concern.
Basically, I just need help making sure that these parts will all work with one another, I won't have any problems building it, and that it will be a very solid system which will be great when I throw down for a GPU in a couple of months. I've done quite a bit of research so I hope I know what I'm doing.
Also, am I reaching too high (C2D E6400/2G Ram) for a computer in this price range? I obviously hope not. I don't want to spend less on the CPU/Memory to spend more on the Case/PSU.
------
Case
Rosewill ATX Mid Tower
$29.99
Newegg.com - Rosewill R604-P BK 120mm Fan ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
---
Power Supply
Dynapower 500W
$29.99
Newegg.com - DYNAPOWER USA DP-50X.C617 ATX12V 500W Power Supply 110/230 UL/cUL E222785, TUV and CB EN 60950 certified - Retail
---
Motherboard
Biostar LGA 775 945G Micro ATX (I need the on board graphics for now)
$78.99
Newegg.com - BIOSTAR I945G-M7 V2.X LGA 775 Intel 945G Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
---
Processor
Core 2 Duo E6400
$218.00
Newegg.com - Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 Conroe 2.13GHz 2M shared L2 Cache LGA 775 Processor - Retail
---
Memory
Kingston (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin SDRAM
$104.99
Newegg.com - Kingston 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
---
Hard Drive
WD Caviar 160GB 7200 SATA 3Gb/s
$52.99
Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar SE WD1600JS 160GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
---
CD/DVD Burner
Asus Black CD/DVD Burner
$29.99
Newegg.com - ASUS Black 16X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 16X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache E-IDE/ATAPI DVD Burner with LightScribe - OEM
---
Floppy (I need a floppy for some industry specific applications)
SONY 1.44 3.5: Floppy
$7.99
Newegg.com - SONY Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive Model MPF920 Black - OEM
---
Mouse / Keyboard
Logitech
$13.99
Newegg.com - Logitech 967973-0403 Black 104 Normal Keys PS/2 Standard Deluxe 250 Desktop Mouse Included - OEM
------
Which brings us to $615.36 including shipping to Chicago, IL.

Thanks so much for the help.
This is a great help to me and the rest of us out there doing it for the first time.

BTW This is an upgrade/in addition to a 3.2Ghz P4 Toshiba laptop w/1G ram that is almost 3 years old.
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Old 04-04-2007, 11:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Computer - New Computer Builder

I want you to understand first that In 8 months of patrolling hardware and overclocking forums I have never seen ONE person or heard any case of an overclock gone wrong with a new Core 2 Duo system if the person had read at least one guide before he did it....I say the reading guide becuase i'm sure someone in this entire world was very stupid to try to boot up a CPU at 1.8 Vcore or something. I'm always trying to encourage people to overclock becuase it completely safe and becuase the new CPU's overclock like crazy...my CPU right now is easily beating a stock Quad-Core Extreme in gaming benchmarks for 1/5 of the price.

If you are looking for a cheap build that will be upgradeable I would encourage you to go AMD X2 right now as they are sooooo much cheaper while not being much slower....and the new Kuma cores while will be 40% faster than the C2D's right now will use the same AM2 motherboards and you will be in very good shape.

As for the actual build...if you still choose to go C2D then do not get an E6400 but rather an E6300 as the only difference you would notice would be the amount you payed on your CPU.

That motherboard will work I guess....but the 945 series was not designed to run with a C2D as the 965 were.

This is IF you go C2D which I suggest you don't if you are on a tighter budget and are looking for upgradeability I suggest an AMD X2....get the X2 3600 for now as it's not really that slow at all.

Understand also that the case you have choose will be very flimsy and with sharp edges. I and the general enthusast community will recommend one of these two for only 15-20 more.

Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UB Black /Blue Aluminum Bezel , SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

or if you want a side window for awesomeness.

Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-WW Black/Silver Aluminum Bezel, SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail

DDR2-677 will work but DDR2-800 is much more futureproof and G.skill is just amazing ram for not much more.

Newegg.com - G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail



get this HD instead as the extra cache is helpful

Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar RE WD1600YS 160GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

EDIT: I want you to know that since you are going to upgrade soon in the future and 600 is a very reasonable budget with an Athlon X2...you could find yourself with a good gaming card right now such as a 7900GS or so and still stay inside the budget. If you overclock as well...you can handle stuff very well so I encourage you to look into how safe it is anymore...this isnt the 90's where P3's would fry.
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E6300 w/ Arctic Freezer Pro 7 @ 3.6ghz 1.4Vcore
Antec 900 Case
EVGA 750i FTW Mobo
4x1GB of G.skill DDR2-800
2 8800GT in SLI
22" Samsung Syncmaster
1 250GB WD and 1 Seagate 7200.10 in RAID 0
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Old 04-05-2007, 03:10 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Computer - New Computer Builder

Thanks,
I decided to take most of your advice. Actually, maybe all of your advice. If I do what you sugguested it should save me about $100. While I will spend about $50 more right now, I will only have to buy the monitor later. I just hope you are right about going AMD Athlon 64 X2 over Core 2 Duo.
Here is where I'm at right now:
------
Case
Cooler Master Centuron 5
$44.99
Newegg.com - COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 CAC-T05-UB Black /Blue Aluminum Bezel , SECC Chassis ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
---
Power Supply
Dynapower 500W
$29.99
Newegg.com - DYNAPOWER USA DP-50X.C617 ATX12V 500W Power Supply 110/230 UL/cUL E222785, TUV and CB EN 60950 certified - Retail
---
Motherboard (I think this is a much better mobo then the previous one also)
Gigabyte AM2 NVIDIA ATX AMD
$79.99
Newegg.com - GIGABYTE GA-M55SLI-S4 Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce4 SLI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
---
Processor
AMD Athlon 64 X2 3600 1.9GHz
$65.00
Newegg.com - AMD Athlon 64 X2 3600+ Brisbane 1.9GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 Processor - OEM
---
CPU Fan
MASSACOOL 80mm Ball
$9.95
Newegg.com - MASSCOOL 6F688B1M3 80mm Ball CPU Cooler - Retail
---
Memory
G.SKILL (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 800
$129.99
Newegg.com - G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
---
Hard Drive
WD Caviar 160GB 7200 SATA 3Gb/s
$59.99
Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar RE WD1600YS 160GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM
---
CD/DVD Burner
Asus Black CD/DVD Burner
$29.99
Newegg.com - ASUS Black 16X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 16X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache E-IDE/ATAPI DVD Burner with LightScribe - OEM
---
Floppy (I need a floppy for some industry specific applications)
SONY 1.44 3.5: Floppy
$7.99
Newegg.com - SONY Black 1.44MB 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive Model MPF920 Black - OEM
---
Mouse / Keyboard
Logitech
$13.99
Newegg.com - Logitech 967973-0403 Black 104 Normal Keys PS/2 Standard Deluxe 250 Desktop Mouse Included - OEM
---
And of course, now I can buy my Graphics Card as well:
EVGA GeForce 7900GS 256MB PCI Express x16
$154.99
Newegg.com - EVGA 256-P2-N624-AR GeForce 7900GS 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 KO Video Card - Retail
------
A couple of new questions:
-Will my power supply be antiquated for that GPU? It says it needs +12v@20A. I don't know much about this so I can't tell for sure.
-I added a CPU fan because that CPU does not include one. As this is my first build, do I need to buy thermal paste to attach it?

Again, thank you. You have been massively helpful. Maybe when I get this up and running I will even overclock it. Who knows?
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Old 04-05-2007, 08:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Computer - New Computer Builder

Now I'm kind of second guessing myself.
Can I get some second opinions on going with the X2 3600 vs the Core 2 Duo. How big of a difference is that?
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Old 04-05-2007, 09:31 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Computer - New Computer Builder

I want you to understand that the difference is not really that much. It will hold for now and you do know that AMD will release new Dual-Core and Quad-Core chips known as the Kuma and the Agena respectability in a few months which are said to be 40% faster than the C2D's. They will work in AM2 motherboards and it would be very easy to upgrade to one later on.

This is why I suggest this...if this is a gaming PC to get a tab slower CPU for now and a pretty fast video card, then you can upgrade to a Kuma later if needed. Many many people game with a C2D at 1.86ghz and like 8800GTS's while if you get your X2 even at 2.3ghz it would be as fast as this which can easily be achieved with a 10 buck cooler.

So I would go with an X2 3600 and overclock it and be happy with a nice video card...now here are some more suggestions.

First off go with this motherboard as it overclocks very well unlike the new one you listed which doesn't.

Newegg.com - BIOSTAR TFORCE 550 Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 550 MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

For the PSU I do NOT trust Dynapower and this Xclio is highly recommended for the price and not too much more. it can handle a single 8800GTX if it had to.
Newegg.com - XClio 450BL ATX 450W Power Supply 115/230 V UL, CUL, TUV, CB - Retail

this cooler as It should be able to get 2.6-2.8 and maybe even 3.0 with that case in it for cheap.

Newegg.com - ARCTIC COOLING ALPINE64 92mm CPU Cooler - Retail

The Video card you listed is AWESOME I have the exact same one and I overclocked it to 615/835 and it destroys a lot of games at 1440x900 res.

This is just what I would do as it will offer you very good upgradeability and good performance as well. I would stick with the X2 3600 and OC it to 2.8ghz which then you will be faster than a stock E6400 that a lot of people run stock with 8800GTS.
__________________
E6300 w/ Arctic Freezer Pro 7 @ 3.6ghz 1.4Vcore
Antec 900 Case
EVGA 750i FTW Mobo
4x1GB of G.skill DDR2-800
2 8800GT in SLI
22" Samsung Syncmaster
1 250GB WD and 1 Seagate 7200.10 in RAID 0
Corsair 520HX 3DMark06 Score: 13900
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Old 04-05-2007, 10:13 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Computer - New Computer Builder

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sora View Post
I want you to understand that the difference is not really that much. It will hold for now and you do know that AMD will release new Dual-Core and Quad-Core chips known as the Kuma and the Agena respectability in a few months which are said to be 40% faster than the C2D's. They will work in AM2 motherboards and it would be very easy to upgrade to one later on.

This is why I suggest this...if this is a gaming PC to get a tab slower CPU for now and a pretty fast video card, then you can upgrade to a Kuma later if needed. Many many people game with a C2D at 1.86ghz and like 8800GTS's while if you get your X2 even at 2.3ghz it would be as fast as this which can easily be achieved with a 10 buck cooler.

So I would go with an X2 3600 and overclock it and be happy with a nice video card...now here are some more suggestions.

First off go with this motherboard as it overclocks very well unlike the new one you listed which doesn't.

Newegg.com - BIOSTAR TFORCE 550 Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 550 MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

For the PSU I do NOT trust Dynapower and this Xclio is highly recommended for the price and not too much more. it can handle a single 8800GTX if it had to.

Newegg.com - BIOSTAR TFORCE 550 Socket AM2 NVIDIA nForce 550 MCP ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

this cooler as It should be able to get 2.6-2.8 and maybe even 3.0 with that case in it for cheap.

Newegg.com - ARCTIC COOLING ALPINE64 92mm CPU Cooler - Retail

The Video card you listed is AWESOME I have the exact same one and I overclocked it to 615/835 and it destroys a lot of games at 1440x900 res.

This is just what I would do as it will offer you very good upgradeability and good performance as well. I would stick with the X2 3600 and OC it to 2.8ghz which then you will be faster than a stock E6400 that a lot of people run stock with 8800GTS.
dude..... sora where is this xclio psu u mentioned, u duplicated link of the Biostar Tforce 550
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Old 04-05-2007, 10:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Computer - New Computer Builder

my bad it's right here.

Newegg.com - XClio 450BL ATX 450W Power Supply 115/230 V UL, CUL, TUV, CB - Retail

edited on the other one as well.
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E6300 w/ Arctic Freezer Pro 7 @ 3.6ghz 1.4Vcore
Antec 900 Case
EVGA 750i FTW Mobo
4x1GB of G.skill DDR2-800
2 8800GT in SLI
22" Samsung Syncmaster
1 250GB WD and 1 Seagate 7200.10 in RAID 0
Corsair 520HX 3DMark06 Score: 13900
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Old 04-06-2007, 11:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Computer - New Computer Builder

Ahhh...
The sweet sound of "Your newegg order has been placed"!
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Old 04-06-2007, 11:34 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Computer - New Computer Builder

Congrats. That is a nice build man
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E6300 w/ Arctic Freezer Pro 7 @ 3.6ghz 1.4Vcore
Antec 900 Case
EVGA 750i FTW Mobo
4x1GB of G.skill DDR2-800
2 8800GT in SLI
22" Samsung Syncmaster
1 250GB WD and 1 Seagate 7200.10 in RAID 0
Corsair 520HX 3DMark06 Score: 13900
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Old 04-08-2007, 08:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Question Re: New Computer - New Computer Builder

This build is actually pretty good for not much money...
Not sure if I want to go with a motherboard that only has 1 IDE connector though...

I've seen in a bunch of RAM reviews that people are messing with the Volt settings. I assume that is just for overclocking, right ?
What are the Volt settings if you don't overclock ?
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