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Old 12-25-2005, 08:47 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Well.... This is a discussion that's going to get a rise out of people..

Personally, I like building my own machines and taking care of them. When I assemble something, I know the care that I put into it. To make sure I don't damage any parts and just generally investigate all the compatibility/life-time/heat, etc. etc. etc.

I've owned a bunch of computers over the years. And have 3 computers running right now. Of all of them I've ever owned, only 2 were not built by me. The first one was an pre-built IBM which my parents bought for $2500 back when. That one didn't give me any problems btw.

And the other one wasn't "pre-built", but I got assembled from a corner store from parts I wanted.. That was probably about 8-9 years ago.. In that system, at least 2 components (including the HDD) crashed in that system. After having to replace them myself, I said never again and decided to work on all my "later" systems myself. I think I was still under warranty. But, I just couldn't be bothered to get the same crap into my computer AGAIN.. .

I can honesty say that computers you build, just last longer. b/c the parts are "guaranteed" to be of higher quality and you know that you just did a good job installing it.

And whatever price you came up with ncix, you can get it lowered since they price match anything you can throw at them.
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Old 12-25-2005, 10:18 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by DBD
I live in the U.S.A. The store I went to was bestbuy and they don't underclock anything. Also these guys http://www.geeksquad.com/ have a shop in bestbuy and one of they're guys was walking by when the Bestbuy guy and I were talking about the HP, The Geek squad guy stopped to checked it out. He was baffled that is was only 1.78GHz when the box said 2.2, He then checked out the some other computers and they where all what the box said. So.... omfg HP lies about there computers or at least the one I wanted
err, I'd argue that your story now seems even more made up, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I don't care if some Best Buy Geeksquad nublette couldn't explain to you that the store's technician had to underclock it (They have no hand in actually setting up the demo PCs and none of the salesmen and associates there have the slightest clue about what they are selling). As for the other PCs, if they're < Athlon or Pentium, such as Sempron, Celeron, etc. there's no need to underclock them for the conservation purpose.

Quote:
Originally posted by nitestick
i wouldn't reccomend a pentium D anyway, especially the 2.8ghz model.
Quote:
Originally posted by apokalipse
yeah, Athlon 64 X2's are much better designed than Pentium D's
Yo, this was just an experiment. This is not a setup I want to buy at all (lol, Ati x300? Are you kidding??). I'd much rather prefer an Athlon 64 X2 for sure, which fyi, they do equip on a lot of HP Media Center PCs that'll cost about $1400 to $1800 Canadian (about $1150 to $1450 USD, respectively), and these aren't the lower end X2's either, you've got 4400s, 4600s, your 4800s in there. The 4200 and the 3800 come in the Pavilion series.

Quote:
Originally posted by Trotter
Pre-built = bloatware and locked BIOS.

'Nuff said.
uh, read post #4, paragraph 2.

As for locked BIOS.. that's hardly the truth at all. As I mentioned in the same paragraph, the mobos in the HPs are supplied by Asus, and they are not specially developed for HP in any way to either reduce costs or limit the user from accessing certain functionality. Whatever mobo you can pick up from newegg or ncix will be very similar to what you'll find in the HPs.

Quote:
Originally posted by Chankama


[...]

The first one was an pre-built IBM which my parents bought for $2500 back when. That one didn't give me any problems btw.

And the other one wasn't "pre-built", but I got assembled from a corner store from parts I wanted.. [...] at least 2 components (including the HDD) crashed in that system. After having to replace them myself, I said never again and decided to work on all my "later" systems myself. [...]

I can honesty say that computers you build, just last longer. b/c the parts are "guaranteed" to be of higher quality and you know that you just did a good job installing it.

And whatever price you came up with ncix, you can get it lowered since they price match anything you can throw at them.
Well, whatever arguments I was presenting for pre-built computers, it was those made by big companies such as HP. I wouldn't want my pc to be assembled by some shmuck in some corner-store. With HP, they have to build thousands of these computers, they have to make sure it won't fail cuz they'll lose money. That's why your IBM gave you no problems. I've had two Pavilions for close to five years for the first one and three years for the second, and they never, ever gave me any problems at all. Upgrading, overclocking was a peace of cake.

As for price matching, well, that's always a good thing. But unfortunatley, that's only with other sites...

To go back on another argument made before, about parts being hard to replace and expensive, I had lost my recovery disks and I ordered them back from HP for $30. If you lost your disks or had them damaged on a self-built pc, then you'd be paying back that 100+ you initially paid to get them. And just so people get things clear here, even if you modify options in BIOS, open up your PC, whatever, HP will still give you whatever technical assistance and replace parts for you for free or close to nothing. All of the parts, btw, if you really want to, can be bought elsewhere, you don't have to get HP specific parts.

All in all though, I come to this conclusion:
The only thing to really gain from building your own PC is having the excitement of building your pc with your own hands. You can also specifically choose whatever components you want. But do not be fooled by the myth that says that building your own computer is going to be cheaper than buying a pre-built one. This myth is just that, a myth. It is not true at all. But look, don't get me wrong here, I would much rather buy the same setup off a site, for $200 cheaper, than get it from HP. But what I'm just trying to prove here, is that it's not as crazy as people put it out to be.

If anything, people just want to seem more 1337 and not have to buy something made by a big manufacturer. Performance wise, keeping value and price ratios you won't get crazier performance from a self-assembled as oppose to a pre-built, unless you're building something that is not pre-built. For instance, HPs haven't made a setup yet that supports SLi. If you want something like that, you'd either have to build it yourself, or buy it from Northwest Systems or Alienware.
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Old 12-25-2005, 12:06 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by teh_omar
The HP mobos, btw, are not proprietary, they are supplied by Asus and are not cost effectively customized for HP computers. They are the same mobos you'd be buying anywhere.
Can you cite a source?
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Old 12-25-2005, 12:09 PM   #14 (permalink)
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take macdudes advice, that was a perfect explanation
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Old 12-25-2005, 02:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by teh_omar
If anything, people just want to seem more 1337 and not have to buy something made by a big manufacturer. Performance wise, keeping value and price ratios you won't get crazier performance from a self-assembled as oppose to a pre-built, unless you're building something that is not pre-built. For instance, HPs haven't made a setup yet that supports SLi. If you want something like that, you'd either have to build it yourself, or buy it from Northwest Systems or Alienware.
This whole comparison needs to more concrete man with more concrete criteria. I remember I started a thread a very long time ago about how "cheap" a Dell machine was. Take a look and see:

http://www.techist.com/showthread.php?threadid=52010

Now that being said, can you really make a system that includes XP and a 17" monitor, by yourself for $329? I doubt it. But some other systems that have very simiar specs have a much higher price tag at various other "reputable companies". So it's not as clear cut as saying this computer should have "this type" of component. More stringent criteria needs to be enforced.

Now, once a large manufacture decides to mass produce some "device", there is nothing you can do about it. IT WILL BE CHEAPER. No question about it. This should be greatly obvious. Take a look at the XBox/PS3/PC threads:

http://www.techist.com/showthread.ph...ars#post629611
Quote:
Originally posted by Chankama
I hope everyone can appreciate the fact that an un-upgradable, pre-built system is MUCH cheaper to manufacture than a traditional PC. [/B]


While I myself didn't have a problem with the $2500 IBM I bought a long time back (486 system), that doesn't mean new computers don't. $2500 is a lot of money, and the IBM standard was great back then.

My g/f's "house" computer is an HP. And I know her brother is always trying to get that piece of crap to "stop breaking"..

These systems do have warrantees. But personally, I don't really like sending my system off to some random warehouse where people can look at all my personal files "once they fix my computer".

Another reason why people who "can" should work on their own systems.

A person can buy a generic machine from like Dell/HP for cheaper b/c they are mass-produced. The key-word being "mass produced". Get these guys to make you a "custom-PC".. And see how much it costs. As you move away from "general" to more "specific" you will find that building your PC urself is much cheaper. In my initial post, I didn't really mention "price" as a huge point - b/c large manufactures CAN make things cheaper when they mass-produce them. But I would never want to let someone touch my computer, to "fix it" or whatever. Same goes for any computer any of my family members own. And as I said before, if you know what you are doing, the quality of your "building process" will be much higher than in a warehouse where some over-worked, under paid employee is slapping stuff together. Did you know that Dell laptops are assembled in Taiwan?.
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Old 12-25-2005, 04:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Old 12-25-2005, 06:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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lol cute emoticons..
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Old 12-25-2005, 08:01 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Old 12-25-2005, 09:21 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Yeah, in the end, I do have to agree with you guys. Thanks for a decently healthy discussion.
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Old 12-25-2005, 09:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I don't know if this has been said yet or not, but prebuilts always lock the BIOS so people don't overclock and mess something up, because then they have to pay for it with the warranty.
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