true random

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Harold III

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I do not think current computers can generate TRUE random numbers. most programming languages only convert system time into numbers that seems random. only natural brain can generate random numbers.

How do yall think?
 
Computers can't generate truly random numbers. If you have a computer generate a "random" number from 1 to 5 five times, you'll get each number once. (At least that's what I've heard.)

This is arguable but I don't think the natural brain is capable of generating completely random numbers either. Any "random" number that the natural brain comes up with would have some kind of influence, I think.
 
Nothing can be TOTALLY random. But aspects of selection can take in many seperately varying factors and put them together somehow to make something random.

If you draw numbers out of a hat, it is seemingly random. However, the slip of paper you pick out depends on how you shuffled all the numbers in the hat. And then the human mind can semi-randomly choose one of them that is near the top. There is no plausable way to calculate what was chosen, but it is not COMPLETELY random. There is some basis. Thinking this way makes me wonder whether there is truly no such thing as a random number. Except perhaps the human mind. We cannot know how that works...and whether randomization is possible.

Ok. Listen to this possibility of a random number generator using a variety of variables. All of these together will make it seem random. (this is a random thought out of my head...it is not real, though I'm quite sure it is quite possible).

My imaginary unnecessarily complicated random number generator:

The computer takes the time off the internal clock. For example, 6:58:26. It stores the seconds of that moment (the moment when asked to generate the number) temporarily and uses "6.58". For 6.58 seconds the primary hard drive (and the top platter) is spun from the point it was when "generate" was pressed. The computer records the outer sector number it lands on. It multiplies that number by the number of seconds from the clock it recorded earlier (26, remember?). Now it divides that result by the clock seconds that were recorded the computer user logged on (yes...OSes often do record that). Now the hour you logged on, is taken as a decimal again (let us say you logged on at 5:27:12, the number we used as the divisor is 12, and the number I'm trying to get now as a decimal is 5.27). So 5.27 is multiplied by the number of packets that have been transfered on all networks (if none, it just takes 5.27) and this new number is added to our main total. Now the generator tells you "done" and there is a button that says "view". At this moment, the generator records the pixels that the mouse travels to get to the "view" button. The total number is taken to the exponent of the number of pixels. Now during the fraction of a second the computer takes to display the number, it multiplies the number by ten(to the necessary exponent) to bring it within the requested range. Should the number be negetive when not requested, it can easily be inverted to be made positive. Should any amount decimals not be requested the generator can in this moment round the number off as necessary.

Simple, eh? Please feel free to point out the many flaws. This was freestyle...improvisation...I just did it now on the spot, so there are bound to be inconsistancies or impossibilities.
 
I agree with what you said about there being no such thing as a random number. It's sort of more of a concept than a real thing, like infinity. I think your random-number-generator idea would work for whatever purposes a random number was needed for, but it's not really random, because there's so many things that affect it.
 
Emily said:
I agree with what you said about there being no such thing as a random number. It's sort of more of a concept than a real thing, like infinity. I think your random-number-generator idea would work for whatever purposes a random number was needed for, but it's not really random, because there's so many things that affect it.

My point was that it isn't random. It basically says that no matter how many circumstances you through in to make the result difficult to predict, it won't be random. However, the patterns are probably sufficiently long enough for whatever you need a "random" number for.

What I wonder, is how typical computer random number generators actually work. There are many uses for them. Aside from games (like solitaire, where it has to "randomly" "shuffle" the deck), they are used (I'm quite sure) for things like file encryption.


If you have a computer generate a "random" number from 1 to 5 five times, you'll get each number once. (At least that's what I've heard.)

I'm not quite sure this is so. There must be programming code that you can use to avoid that issue. Perhaps if there is a pattern, change the pattern to the next pattern in line at every minute in the hour devisable by four.


There is an interesting website with an abundance of random generators for things like phrases for naming characters in stories. Basically it seems to assign numbers to sections of the word or phrase. It has some sort of database of cuts for these sections and the random numbers generated all tie to one of them. Some of the generators are quite good, actually. http://seventhsanctum.com/gens/index.html
 
Consider this: if you are told to put your finger on your mouse, the time you spend to do this thing will be a result to record. if you gather many many results like this (such as the angle degree of turning a stir wheel) and look at them as a whole, they tend to form a pattern, in other words tend to be close to a certain number. then substract this number from recorded result, then you get a random number. but the numbers generated this way are not scattered equally, they tend to form a bell curve. so even though I'm going to kick my own ass, I'll still admit that human cannot generate real random number with their unconscious part of self. how about the conscious part? I don't know, and I'll leave it to yall to discuss.
 
i would try to enhance this thread, but a friend of mine is writing a thesis on the whole random number theory titled "Psudo Random Number Theories" and umm hes got alot of shit on it, i dont suggest trying unless you wanna get into that sort of muck, but hey what do i know?
 
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