horndude said:
Actually you can add incarceration,propaganda,rehab programs/treatment, court costs, and enforcement beyond basic police/border/coast guard, these days its roughly $70 billion per year.The US imprisons more people than any nation on the planet, pretty suprising considering its size.
horndude said:
As far as similarities to 1930's germany:
minor offenses are now able to be classified as terrorism related which can result in indefinite incarceration without due process
Well, you see, we have this whole terrorism awareness thing, now, what with the attacks and all. Despite your belief that no one should react to it, they have. Examining the laws closer, this falls along the same kind of lines as "Hackers can recieve the death penalty." This doesn't mean every hacker that gets caught gets put to death, does it? If you get arrested for a "minor offense" and you really do turn out to have posed a threat, well duh.
And as for the "minor offenses," well, there's no reason to be surprised that many things previously ignored or lightly handled, are now recieving more attention today. Honestly, though, a lot of the cases involving minor offenses really come down to someone stupid doing something they shouldn't have in a place they shouldn't have.
horndude said:
the search and seizure laws have been strengthened and in some cases no longer need approval from anyone, some were found to be uncontsitutional but the Bush admin is fighting to get that power back
Hmm. Bush conspiracies aside, let's examine some facts.
1. If there is a beleived high-potential of a threat, it is in the public's best interest for this threat to be acted upon as quickly as possible.
2. Given the possible outcomes of many of these raids and strikes, and the tensions concerning these issues now, the only options are to act quickly, or clean up the mess. (BTW, a nice little public hypocrisy appears when no actions are taken, something blows up, and then the public goes up in arms about how the government didn't act.)
3. The ability for the immediate action/siezure to take place, is nothing new. It is a power that has existed for nearly as long as this country has existed.
Quite frankly, if the NRO believes there might be a bomb somewhere, or the CIA believes a group of people in an apartment are terrorists, do we not want them to act quickly? It seems that the public always wants the government to do nothing, but when something goes wrong, all the public can do is whine and complain about how the government did nothing. Until someone invents a crystal ball, you have only two choices. Do nothing, or try to prevent.
horndude said:
a national ID system is in the works, although it hasnt made much progress, it will likely happen at some point
And the problem with a national ID system is...?
horndude said:
political events-dissenters and protesters are either arrested,sequestered, or not allowed in even if theyve paid for their tickets just like everyone else, the Bush admin has changed this into an art form
1. Limiting people to campaigns and speeches is nothing new. Especially when they show up to said events wearing clothing or carrying signs that directly oppose the subject/person. Peaceful protest does not include the intention to start a problem.
2. There is a lot of anger an tension right now, not to mention that large crowds have the tendency to both be targets, and to be potentially violent.
3. The fact that there have been more instances of these things during Bush W's terms in office, should not surprise anyone. For starters, there's a war, and no president during a war has been short of protestors and domestic violence. Second, Bush is not a popular president. Surprise, surprise. The police are having to do just about everything in their power to keep the peace so that democracy can be used rather than blatant heathenism.
horndude said:
govt transparency has been essentially eliminated, the Bush admin has a record number of FOIA requests and has fought more of them than anyone else in history
Wonder why?
horndude said:
govt lists have already been created restricting travel, for example the TSA watch list is now in effect, and its one way, you get put on it and there's no way to get off of it, no govt explanation or recourse, which makes it impossible to leave the country via airplane, no due process, no appeal, and no govt investigation into it at all
What you mean to say is that there's no PUBLIC government investigation. You can be sure that there's information on those people somewhere, starting at the NRO and crossing over both the FBI, CIA, and the OHS.
But either way, the TSA list should not be that hard for you to understand. First off, we don't want any suspected terrorists getting on planes so they can blow them up or use them to blow things up. Second, we, as part of our friendship with other nations and as part of our own moral structure, do not want to allow terrorists to get on a plane and do to other countries what happened to us in 9/11. A little stepping on people's toes is a small price to pay for keeping our airlines safe. And honestly, how can such a list exist without snagging a few innocent people? Also, the TSA list is both new, but its process is being reviewed and most people on the list are just on as "Selective" persons, which means they get screened by security. Big deal. Would you rather they not?
horndude said:
this is just the tip of the iceberg, this same crap started in germany for many of the same reasons, they just hid it behind something else, here in the US its "terrorism" and xenophobia
So what's the story this time? There's no Nazi party, though I'd be interested in what political party you think is gonna bounce out of the walls and take over. Or maybe you think the CIA is gonna rear up an ugly hidden head and declare Americans to be the pure race of the world and begin a global empire? Or maybe you think that the recent world and domestic events have nothing to do with the increase in government activity? Maybe you think that the government is going to sprout a more efficient cost-effective population tracking and monitoring system to replace the one already in place? Perhaps you know of some other government to turn to? Or maybe you think Bill Gates is going to come out of retirement, take over America, and force the world into a global Windows reich?
EDIT:
Oh, and it's caleld "french toast" and "french fries" and "belgian waffles" and "german chocolate cake"...because that's what it is called! It's a name.
lol it was so cool.
